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rec.photo.digital
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Today's topics:
* OT: Ping: Stormin Mormon - 11 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/9db86ee5d2dc1c69?hl=en
* Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough - 8 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/7694b9e85e8630b7?hl=en
* Old fashioned battery tester - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/aef7f5267962d1e4?hl=en
* This news will irate the pro-DSLR and Canon enthusiasts ! - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ebc9d6f22f3d23fa?hl=en
* 10DEEP hoody (paypal payment)( www.sneaker-shop08.com ) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/076272df836e19cc?hl=en
* discount Air MAX tn9 shoes www.sneaker-shop08 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/b1940e508cd441e9?hl=en
* G-Star shirt (paypal payment)( www.sneaker-shop08.com ) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/e58712ea047c7ed0?hl=en
* Edition - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8fb49e3926a6f08c?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Ping: Stormin Mormon
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/9db86ee5d2dc1c69?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:53 pm
From: "Frank ess"
Allen wrote:
> Pat wrote:
>> On Mar 20, 3:53 pm, "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote:
>>> C J Campbell wrote:
>>>> On 2009-03-19 08:33:22 -0700, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us>
>>>> said:
>>>>> Hey, are you really a Mormon? If so, I have a question for you.
>>>>> I like drinking Postum on occasion. Seems like they've
>>>>> discontinued it for a while and you can't buy it any more except
>>>>> for outlandish prices on Ebay.
>>>> Postum will probably not come back. Few, even among us 'Mormons'
>>>> (we prefer the term Latter-day Saints, or Saints) ever drank it.
>>>> Seventh Day Adventists also drank it. Hot chocolate and herbal
>>>> 'teas' were always more popular and still are. Personally, I
>>>> hate the stuff. You can make your own Postum. A recipe from
>>>> Mother Earth News calls for you to combine six cups of cracked
>>>> wheat with a cup of milk, a half cup of molasses, and a teaspoon
>>>> of salt. Spread it thinly on a cookie sheet and bake until brown
>>>> in a 300º oven. Be careful not to let it burn. Turn the heat off
>>>> and leave it in the oven to dry to a crisp. Grind it up in a
>>>> coffee mill, store in sealed jars, and perk or drip like regular
>>>> coffee. You can get cracked wheat from health food stores. Or you
>>>> can
>>>> use a mixture of whole wheat flour and bran.
>>> That's a nice piece of information for Postum users.
>>>
>>> Everyone in my extended (is that a necessary modifier?) LDS family
>>> drank Postum and Dr Pepper in the middle-late 1940s, Layton, Utah
>>> and thereabouts. What I remember learning is that they were the
>>> drinks that had no caffeine in them. Now I have to wonder if
>>> there was some detheobrominated hot chocolate. Seems to me
>>> chocolate (Spanish, from Nahuatl xocolatl : xococ, bitter + atl,
>>> water.) has a significant caffeine-like effect due to its
>>> theobromine component. Each is a stimulant; is one more bannable
>>> than another? --
>>> Frank ess
>>>
>>> thinsp.png
>>> < 1KViewDownload
>>
>> Ahh. The fundamental difference between LDS and Catholics. You
>> don't like caffeine while we serve wine halfway through Mass so
>> the Irish will come.
>>
>> I guess I'm one of the few people who actually liked the taste of
>> Postum. It was a pleasant diversion from tea and coffee. I
>> probably have a half-dozen types of coffee in the house and maybe
>> a dozen different teas but sometimes Postum just hits the stop. I
>> guess I'm going to have to try one of the substitutes.
>>
>> I wouldn't mind making my own but I don't want to add the brewing
>> stop every time. I'm wondering about brewing it in bulk and
>> freeze drying/ dehydrating it. Then it would be "instant" like
>> Postum but it would also probably need some sort of anti-caking
>> agent. I wonder how hard that would be?
>>
> Back in the 1930s there were many ads for a coffee substitute
> featuring a character with a satanic look about him called "Mr.
> Coffee Nerves". I am having trouble remembering if this was for
> Postum (my strongest recollection) or some other product. Does
> anyone recall, or am I the only one here who is old enough to go
> back that far? Allen
I'm sure I remember there being a "Mr Coffee Nerves", but I'm afraid
the visual image is blended with that of "Peter Pain" (Absorbine Jr?).
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:53 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
"Mormons" is so ninenteen seventies. Remember the ads, with
the narrator at the end? Brought to you by the Church......
the Mormons.
I've not tried Postum, so I don't know one way or the other.
I love hot chocolate, so that's not as much an issue.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellremovethis@hotmail.com>
wrote in message news:2009032011175175249-
Postum will probably not come back. Few, even among us
'Mormons' (we
prefer the term Latter-day Saints, or Saints) ever drank it.
Seventh
Day Adventists also drank it. Hot chocolate and herbal
'teas' were
always more popular and still are. Personally, I hate the
stuff.
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:56 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
I don't know about back then, but Dr. Pepper now days has a
good stiff dose of caffeine. I found that out by accident
one hot summer night. I bought a two liter on the way home
from a hot day of work. Poured some over ice. I'd forgot how
much I loved the stuff. So, fill er up a couple more times.
I had a lot of trouble sleeping, that night.
From what I've been told, caffeine isn't the issue. Since
colas are personal choice. Something about tea and coffee,
but it hasn't really been explained to us yet.
The church has also recently spoken against the "energy
drinks" that are high in caffeine. The church magazine had
an article about energy drinks a couple months ago.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
news:I8adndA_DujTaV7UnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...
That's a nice piece of information for Postum users.
Everyone in my extended (is that a necessary modifier?) LDS
family
drank Postum and Dr Pepper in the middle-late 1940s, Layton,
Utah and
thereabouts. What I remember learning is that they were the
drinks
that had no caffeine in them. Now I have to wonder if there
was some
detheobrominated hot chocolate. Seems to me chocolate
(Spanish, from
Nahuatl xocolatl : xococ, bitter + atl, water.) has a
significant
caffeine-like effect due to its theobromine component. Each
is a
stimulant; is one more bannable than another?
--
Frank ess
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:58 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
I enjoy a polite religious joke now and again. Most of the
LDS jokes are a bit cultural specific, so others might not
get them.
Q: How many home teachers does it take to change a light
bulb?
A: Two, but it has to be late in the month.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:226a77ea-13fa-41b3-bb56-66c922a83c08@j8g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
Ahh. The fundamental difference between LDS and Catholics.
You don't
like caffeine while we serve wine halfway through Mass so
the Irish
will come.
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 2:00 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
I wasn't alive for these ads, but I read in old magazines
that Chesterfields cure throat scratch. Lucky me, I'm
allergic to tobacco smoke. One less thing I had to give up,
to join the church.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Allen" <allent@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:PKmdnZVfG-H6zFjUnZ2dnUVZ_jaWnZ2d@giganews.com...
Back in the 1930s there were many ads for a coffee
substitute featuring
a character with a satanic look about him called "Mr. Coffee
Nerves". I
am having trouble remembering if this was for Postum (my
strongest
recollection) or some other product. Does anyone recall, or
am I the
only one here who is old enough to go back that far?
Allen
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:29 pm
From: Pat
On Mar 21, 4:56 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about back then, but Dr. Pepper now days has a
> good stiff dose of caffeine. I found that out by accident
> one hot summer night. I bought a two liter on the way home
> from a hot day of work. Poured some over ice. I'd forgot how
> much I loved the stuff. So, fill er up a couple more times.
> I had a lot of trouble sleeping, that night.
I have ADD so caffeine has such a different effect on me that it isn't
funny. One evening I had a friend over and happened to make
espresso. He wanted some. The next day he called to complain that he
went home, cleaned the house, paid bills, etc. and stayed up 'till
4:00 AM and had to get up at 7:00 for work. He was wiped out. As for
me, I went to bed. Caffeine slows me down, not winds me up.
It is strange, but I have never thought that the LDS traditions (that
I know of) as being in any way weird. Who cares if you drink coffee.
I just think of it as "different strokes for different folks". It is
no stranger than what us Catholics do ... no meat on Fridays during
Lent, etc. or what Jews do. I've always been respectful of them
because I've always thought that if it's part of your religion, it
keeps your community together, and doesn't bother anyone else; then
it's not for me do decide what's strange or normal.
I had a friend over who was Jewish. He brought his kids. We had BBQ
chicken. He had never had it. Within his family tradition, it was
just something that they never ate. He didn't keep Kosher but if he
did, it was still possible to eat. He just didn't eat it. I guess we
all have our traditions and cultures.
BTW, do you remember the old Bob Newhart routine about Sir Walter
Raleigh telephoning his bosses back in England. We was trying to
explain how you took this plant, lit it on fire, stuck the burning
leaves near your face and breathed in the smoke. Then he ended, IIRC,
with saying that you don't even want to know about the bean that you
grind up, pour hot water over, and drink the broth.
>
> From what I've been told, caffeine isn't the issue. Since
> colas are personal choice. Something about tea and coffee,
> but it hasn't really been explained to us yet.
>
> The church has also recently spoken against the "energy
> drinks" that are high in caffeine. The church magazine had
> an article about energy drinks a couple months ago.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:I8adndA_DujTaV7UnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> That's a nice piece of information for Postum users.
>
> Everyone in my extended (is that a necessary modifier?) LDS
> family
> drank Postum and Dr Pepper in the middle-late 1940s, Layton,
> Utah and
> thereabouts. What I remember learning is that they were the
> drinks
> that had no caffeine in them. Now I have to wonder if there
> was some
> detheobrominated hot chocolate. Seems to me chocolate
> (Spanish, from
> Nahuatl xocolatl : xococ, bitter + atl, water.) has a
> significant
> caffeine-like effect due to its theobromine component. Each
> is a
> stimulant; is one more bannable than another?
>
> --
> Frank ess
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:44 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:d195b6cc-33c2-4e3b-9e99-d3c863a839a9@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I have ADD so caffeine has such a different effect on me
that it isn't
funny. One evening I had a friend over and happened to make
espresso. He wanted some. The next day he called to
complain that he
went home, cleaned the house, paid bills, etc. and stayed up
'till
4:00 AM and had to get up at 7:00 for work. He was wiped
out. As for
me, I went to bed. Caffeine slows me down, not winds me up.
CY: My cousin has an adopted boy who has ADD. Same thing.
Coffee perks up cousin, and calms down the boy (who is about
16 now).
It is strange, but I have never thought that the LDS
traditions (that
I know of) as being in any way weird. Who cares if you
drink coffee.
I just think of it as "different strokes for different
folks".
CY: I guess each group of people has a set of rules.
It is
no stranger than what us Catholics do ... no meat on Fridays
during
Lent, etc. or what Jews do. I've always been respectful of
them
because I've always thought that if it's part of your
religion, it
keeps your community together, and doesn't bother anyone
else; then
it's not for me do decide what's strange or normal.
CY: That's a good way to look at it. The different churches
and groups have different customs.
I had a friend over who was Jewish. He brought his kids.
We had BBQ
chicken. He had never had it. Within his family tradition,
it was
just something that they never ate. He didn't keep Kosher
but if he
did, it was still possible to eat. He just didn't eat it.
I guess we
all have our traditions and cultures.
CY: Hmm. I guess chicken would be kosher if not eaten with
milk? One family in my congregation are vegetarians. I
remember asking why, but they weren't very clear with their
answer.
BTW, do you remember the old Bob Newhart routine about Sir
Walter
Raleigh telephoning his bosses back in England. We was
trying to
explain how you took this plant, lit it on fire, stuck the
burning
leaves near your face and breathed in the smoke. Then he
ended, IIRC,
with saying that you don't even want to know about the bean
that you
grind up, pour hot water over, and drink the broth.
CY: No, but it sounds a bit like the humor Mark Twain used,
in his "Letter from the Earth". I bought a copy of that many
years ago, and really got a good laugh. I can easily imagine
someone thinking LDS folks are quite strange.
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:46 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
I presume you have heard the joke I heard so many years ago.
Still give me the giggles. About the very nervous new
priest. The older priest suggested martinis in his water
tumbler. After the sermon, the older priest corrected a list
of things.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:d195b6cc-33c2-4e3b-9e99-d3c863a839a9@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I just think of it as "different strokes for different
folks". It is
no stranger than what us Catholics do ... no meat on Fridays
during
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:47 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mr+coffee+nerves+&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
And, Google to the rescue.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Allen" <allent@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:PKmdnZVfG-H6zFjUnZ2dnUVZ_jaWnZ2d@giganews.com...
Back in the 1930s there were many ads for a coffee
substitute featuring
a character with a satanic look about him called "Mr. Coffee
Nerves". I
am having trouble remembering if this was for Postum (my
strongest
recollection) or some other product. Does anyone recall, or
am I the
only one here who is old enough to go back that far?
Allen
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:49 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
During the salmonella crisis, I called that "Pooper pan". I
know, I'm not supposed to make potty jokes.
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=peter+pain+&btnG=Search+Images
I doubt we got the proper image, on Google.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
news:4POdndVJ85IvzljUnZ2dnUVZ_uWWnZ2d@giganews.com...
I'm sure I remember there being a "Mr Coffee Nerves", but
I'm afraid
the visual image is blended with that of "Peter Pain"
(Absorbine Jr?).
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:28 pm
From: ASAAR
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:53:12 -0700, Frank ess wrote:
> I'm sure I remember there being a "Mr Coffee Nerves", but I'm afraid
> the visual image is blended with that of "Peter Pain" (Absorbine Jr?).
I used to see Ben-Gay's "Peter Pain" ads each week in the local
newspaper's Sunday comic section, and several years later listened
to Jean Shepherd's radio program where he'd spin tales of Peter Pain
(said to look like a pickle) and his arch nemesis, Mr. Ben-Gay. The
following tale is also on one of his old 33 1/3 LPs :
> Shep to me wasn't an unseen presence in a movie or an ink-on-paper
> author, but the late-night voice that came riding in to the
> accompaniment of Strauss' rollicking "Bahn Frei Polka," which
> both announced his arrival on WOR radio in New York and often
> provided the recurring bass line for the story of the evening, which
> generally was a childhood reminiscence, a gripe about Army life, or
> a Shepherd riff on some pet peeve or news report that he managed
> to tie in to some childhood memory from the 1930s or 1940s.
>
> One centered on the downfall of ancient advertising icon "Peter Pain,"
> a character now lost in the mists of time, whose perverse enjoyment
> of arthritis aches and discomfort could be seen in the Sunday comics
> sections of yore. Mr. Pain, a cartoon sadist, used his pitchfork to really
> make that shoulder and back hurt like the devil itself.
>
> As Shepherd told it, Mr. Pain's life was no bed of roses, either. He was
> the arch enemy of another cartoon figure, liniment product hero
> "Ben Gay," the swaggering personification of a large tube of ointment.
> Mr. Gay always delivered a timely comeuppance to the villainous
> Mr. Pain, who was sort of a scruffy, vaguely European, green,
> stubble-faced, derby wearing pickle. Now, THAT was advertising!
>
> One night, quite possibly bored out of his skull, Shepherd pondered
> aloud on Mr. Pain's continuous string of misfortunes at the hands of
> Mr. Gay. Harking back to a familiar theme in his monologues, that
> some unknowable force was out there, which was beyond our power
> to control and which was working in immutable, mysterious ways to
> make our lives miserable, was also perhaps even to blame for taking
> the bread out of the hands of so lowly a thing as an arthritis-loving pickle.
>
> "That's right, he's out of work now. He can't earn a nickel,"
> Shepherd mused after recalling yet another Sunday morning humiliation
> heaped on Peter Pain from the comic strips of his youth. "Every night,
> at 2 o'clock in the morning, you see old Pete out on Times Square,
> cadging pastrami sandwiches from those old, out-of-work, broken-down
> comics and strippers, dreaming about those great, old days in show biz.
>
> "You can talk about your discrimination. Was this because he was
> ... green? Oh, no. Because he was shaped like a pickle? Oh, no. It goes
> far deeper than that. We can't take it. We can't -- none of us can take it.
> You want to know where the real Pete Pain went and why he's out of
> work? Why he can't earn a nickel anymore?
>
> "They got this motivational research firm on the job and they went from
> coast to coast and they were trying to find out what was really happening,
> and they found out all right. They found out old Pete wasn't selling
> Ben Gay at all. No," said Shepherd.
>
> "He was selling pitchforks, and they were moving! They were really moving!"
http://www.mlive.com/opinion/muskegon/index.ssf/2008/12/a_christmas_story_about_a_chri.html
Some old newspaper Ben-Gay ads (small jpg files) :
http://i17.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/f5/84/4e92_1.JPG [1943 ad]
http://i24.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/f5/fa/d8a6_1.JPG [1944 ad]
http://i23.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/0e/a6/b3e2_1.JPG [1955 ad]
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Olympus SLR boss says 12 MP is enough
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/7694b9e85e8630b7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:08 pm
From: Rob
nospam wrote:
> In article <MPG.242f46efd6893bd398c070@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
> Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Nonsense. The difference in size between the E620 and the smallest
>>> APS-C DSLRs is insignificant.
>> Compare by yourself using the E420, the smallest 4/3 DSLR:
>>
>> (W x H x D) Body weight (inc. battery & card)
>> Olympus E-420 129.5 x 91 x 53 mm 445 g
>> Canon EOS 450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm 526 g
>> Nikon D60 126 x 94 x 64 mm 544 g
>> Sony DSLR-A200 131 x 98.5 x 71 mm 624 g
>
> the nikon is 3.5mm narrower and 3mm taller. that's basically the same
> size. the canon is 0.5mm narrower and 7mm taller, also insignificant.
>
> the only advantage to the olympus is that is a little thinner but that
> makes no difference once a lens is attached.
>
>> 445g for the E420, 526g for the Canon 450
>> 624 cubic cm for the E420, 784 cubic cm for the 450D
>>
>> That is not an insignificant weight/size difference.
>
> weight and volume of the body alone is irrelevant. attach a lens and
> compare.
As someone relatively new to using different lenses, I have to say the
initial surprise at the weight of my new 40D (compared to my old 300D)
was soon gone once I bolted a 18-200mm zoom on the end. If anything, the
additional weight helps balance IMHO.
Rob
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:11 pm
From: Alfred Molon
In article <210320091138515005%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam says...
> In article <MPG.242f46efd6893bd398c070@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
> Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Nonsense. The difference in size between the E620 and the smallest
> > > APS-C DSLRs is insignificant.
> >
> > Compare by yourself using the E420, the smallest 4/3 DSLR:
> >
> > (W x H x D) Body weight (inc. battery & card)
> > Olympus E-420 129.5 x 91 x 53 mm 445 g
> > Canon EOS 450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm 526 g
> > Nikon D60 126 x 94 x 64 mm 544 g
> > Sony DSLR-A200 131 x 98.5 x 71 mm 624 g
>
> the nikon is 3.5mm narrower and 3mm taller. that's basically the same
> size. the canon is 0.5mm narrower and 7mm taller, also insignificant.
Hi nospam, can you read? The Nikon is also 11mm wider. Also with the
Canon you missed the 3rd dimension.
--
Alfred Molon
------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0, E620, E30, E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:22 pm
From: Alfred Molon
In article <8kfas4hmoa3j80l7t0m5f20vj2vv6vgqag@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
> Olympus predicted that 5 MP would be enough to attract pro shooters.
>
> Wrong. Canon's pro camera jumped from 4 to 8 MP within weeks of the
> introduction of the Olympus E1 and stole the market.
Show me where they predicted that.
> Olympus predicted that Four Thirds would enable the production of
> smaller and lighter lenses with superior optical performance to those
> for APS-C.
>
> Wrong. The specialist Canon AF-S and Nikon DX lenses were just as
> small, just as light, and performed so well they stole the market.
And here they were right. Smaller sensor => smaller and more lightweight
lens.
> Olympus predicted that Four Thirds would become the format of choice for
> pros because of the small, light and optically superb lenses.
>
> Wrong. The only pros who used Four Thirds for more than a few months
> were those who were sponsored by Olympus.
Never heard of that prediction. Besides you are repeating yourself (see
above).
> Olympus predicted that many other camera manufacturers would jump on the
> Four Thirds bandwagon.
>
> Wrong. Only Panasonic joined. Panasonic have all but abandoned Four
> Thirds and have decided that the only way to realise the benefits of the
> small sensor is to make non-SLR cameras without a reflex mirror.
>
> Olympus predicted that many other lens manufacturers would jump on the
> Four Thirds bandwagon.
>
> Wrong. Only Panasonic and Sigma joined. Some Panasonic lenses had the
> Leica name but they were neither designed nor manufactured by Leica.
> None of the Sigma lenses was designed for Four Thirds - they are merely
> adapted versions of Sigma's APS-C (DC) lenses using a Four Thirds mount.
You are mixing up "prediction" with "marketing campaign".
In any case there is a demand for small and lightweight cameras with
DSLR-like performance. Not everybody wants to lug around a huge and
heavy backpack full of photographic gear.
Why would anybody want to carry around a heavy full frame DSLR when a
much smaller and lighter one is available and the image quality is
sufficient.
--
Alfred Molon
------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0, E620, E30, E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:24 pm
From: Alfred Molon
In article <dvgas4h2g5928fhilcih273qig2f9nu0vm@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
> Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <9dp9s493dm2jjqgi8cetvrhgilalq8o3a4@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
> >
> >> Nonsense. The difference in size between the E620 and the smallest
> >> APS-C DSLRs is insignificant.
> >
> >Compare by yourself using the E420, the smallest 4/3 DSLR:
> >
> >(W x H x D) Body weight (inc. battery & card)
> >Olympus E-420 129.5 x 91 x 53 mm 445 g
> >Canon EOS 450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm 526 g
> >Nikon D60 126 x 94 x 64 mm 544 g
> >Sony DSLR-A200 131 x 98.5 x 71 mm 624 g
> >
> >445g for the E420, 526g for the Canon 450
> >624 cubic cm for the E420, 784 cubic cm for the 450D
> >
> >That is not an insignificant weight/size difference.
>
>
> Don't be ridiculous. Insignificant is *exactly* what it is.
A 25% difference in volume is not insignificant.
> The owner of my local camera store believes one of the reasons Olympus
> DSLRs are difficult to sell is that they are too small for most people.
ROTFL. Then why do so many people buy small compact cameras?
--
Alfred Molon
------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0, E620, E30, E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:39 pm
From: nospam
In article <MPG.242f847931b2b4fe98c073@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > (W x H x D) Body weight (inc. battery & card)
> > > Olympus E-420 129.5 x 91 x 53 mm 445 g
> > > Canon EOS 450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm 526 g
> > > Nikon D60 126 x 94 x 64 mm 544 g
> > > Sony DSLR-A200 131 x 98.5 x 71 mm 624 g
> >
> > the nikon is 3.5mm narrower and 3mm taller. that's basically the same
> > size. the canon is 0.5mm narrower and 7mm taller, also insignificant.
>
> Hi nospam, can you read? The Nikon is also 11mm wider. Also with the
> Canon you missed the 3rd dimension.
not only can i read, but i can do simple subtraction too, and the 11mm
is *depth* not width.
width: 126mm versus 129.5mm, with nikon 3.5 mm narrower.
height: 94mm versus 91mm, with nikon being 3mm taller.
depth: 64mm versus 53mm, with nikon being 11mm thicker but that can
dramatically change depending on what lens is attached.
a 3mm difference in width & height is insignificant and probably would
not be noticed at *all*. even the 11mm difference in thickness is not
that big of a deal and as i said before, that can change, depending on
which lens is attached.
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:40 pm
From: nospam
In article <MPG.242f86eacd8ee4398c074@news.supernews.com>, Alfred Molon
<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why would anybody want to carry around a heavy full frame DSLR when a
> much smaller and lighter one is available and the image quality is
> sufficient.
because they want the image quality advantages that full frame offers,
particularly at higher isos, or they want less expensive wide angle
lenses.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:07 pm
From: Bruce
Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <dvgas4h2g5928fhilcih273qig2f9nu0vm@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
>> Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <9dp9s493dm2jjqgi8cetvrhgilalq8o3a4@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
>> >
>> >> Nonsense. The difference in size between the E620 and the smallest
>> >> APS-C DSLRs is insignificant.
>> >
>> >Compare by yourself using the E420, the smallest 4/3 DSLR:
>> >
>> >(W x H x D) Body weight (inc. battery & card)
>> >Olympus E-420 129.5 x 91 x 53 mm 445 g
>> >Canon EOS 450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm 526 g
>> >Nikon D60 126 x 94 x 64 mm 544 g
>> >Sony DSLR-A200 131 x 98.5 x 71 mm 624 g
>> >
>> >445g for the E420, 526g for the Canon 450
>> >624 cubic cm for the E420, 784 cubic cm for the 450D
>> >
>> >That is not an insignificant weight/size difference.
>>
>>
>> Don't be ridiculous. Insignificant is *exactly* what it is.
>
>A 25% difference in volume is not insignificant.
On the contrary, it is not significant because 7mm in height and 9mm in
depth are neither here nor there.
Your volume calculations are of course designed to mislead because the
EOS 450D has a grip whereas the E420 does not.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:08 pm
From: Bruce
Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <8kfas4hmoa3j80l7t0m5f20vj2vv6vgqag@4ax.com>, Bruce says...
>
>> Olympus predicted that 5 MP would be enough to attract pro shooters.
>>
>> Wrong. Canon's pro camera jumped from 4 to 8 MP within weeks of the
>> introduction of the Olympus E1 and stole the market.
>
>Show me where they predicted that.
The prediction was called "Olympus E1".
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Old fashioned battery tester
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/aef7f5267962d1e4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:39 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"
I've used the bulb and wire tester on alkalines. Actually,
that's about only time and place I use it. Why would you say
less effective?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<sligoNoSPAMjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:97kas4p2ridvfg5j69vgblob68ef35rire@4ax.com...
Somewhat less effective with alkaline batteries.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: This news will irate the pro-DSLR and Canon enthusiasts !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ebc9d6f22f3d23fa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:27 pm
From: Robert Coe
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT), aniramca@gmail.com wrote:
: The Meteotek team consisting of Spanish high school students managed
: to take photos of the earth from high altitude balloon using a Nikon
: Coolpix camera. Anyone knows which model that they used? The story and
: photos are located here
: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1162659/Students-tie-56-camera-balloon-send-edge-space-capture-stunning-images-Earth.html
: or
: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/03/meteotek_highaltitude_balloon_proje.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
:
: Will this bring further never-ending feud between supporters of P&S
: and SLR camera enthusiasts, and perhaps also between Nikon and Canon
: brand?
Who are you? Rich Anderson's understudy?
Bob
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 10DEEP hoody (paypal payment)( www.sneaker-shop08.com )
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/076272df836e19cc?hl=en
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==============================================================================
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: G-Star shirt (paypal payment)( www.sneaker-shop08.com )
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TOPIC: Edition
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8fb49e3926a6f08c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:58 pm
From: "Miguel"
Hello:
I was practicing something of edition, and It will be interesting to know
your comments:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3373571556/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3373571564/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3373571572/
--
Miguel M. Yalán
http://mmyv.com
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Can - It was meant as a compliment.  I only wish I could create half the stuff you can!!! But alas, I am not an artist - more like...a graphical manipulator. LOL Chrissy - You're absolutely right, and that was the point I was making. If you find a pic on the internet from Yahoo/Google search and then tube it, it's not your's...it belongs to whoever took the picture. And I don't see anything wrong with laying claim to a tag you made. As you said, you're claiming the design of the tag, not each and every little thing you used to make it. Basically, Angie is trying to claim pictures online that she tubed are her's, while Calypso also tubed some of the same pictures. Angie went onto Calypso's website and saw the exact same pictures tubed that she tubed. So, Angie told Calypso that she would black list her in various groups, saying that she's been around for 3 years and is popular(according to her), therefore, everyone will listen to her. --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Chrissy Simmons <csimmons66@gmail.com> wrote:
|
http://groups.google.com/group/Cartoon-PSP * http://groups.google.com/group/Disney-Tubes * http://groups.google.com/group/PSP-Snags-Adult * http://I-Love-Tutorials.com/chat * http://I-Love-PSP.com * http://PSP.I-Love-Disney.com * http://I-Love-Cartoons.com * http://I-Love-Disney.com * http://KTimothy.com * http://Disney-Stationary.com * http://Disney-Kingdom.com * http://Disney-Clipart.com
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NO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT IS INTENDED.
Group owner is not responsible for the sends/opinions of its members
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adobe.photography
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography?hl=en
adobe.photography@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Be VERY Afraid … - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/cf82f66e37b5ce25?hl=en
* So is the photography forum dead or grasping for its last breath? - 20
messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/df98f10b5350a14c?hl=en
* Another Macro/Close Up Thread - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/004dbdcea2dc130a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Be VERY Afraid …
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/cf82f66e37b5ce25?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 20 2009 12:19 pm
From: Laurentiu_G_Todie@adobeforums.com
"Businessmen that lead big corporations are indeed s.o.b.'s and, these days, also imbeciles."
I now know another one of Ramón's many opinions : )
(I don't share it, but it's good to know)
I kindah like the new CEO of AIG; he blushes too much, but he made a good point in congress.
wait a minute! I think that most congress people are imbeciles, especially dodd, but barney too : )
==============================================================================
TOPIC: So is the photography forum dead or grasping for its last breath?
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/df98f10b5350a14c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:11 am
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
Wow. I have really come to enjoy this forum, warts and all. I do hope we don't lose it and lose the ability to post images that we retain all the rights to. :(
If this goes away, know that I will miss you guys!
== 2 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 7:58 am
From: Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com
I think it died!
== 3 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 8:36 am
From: Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com
Agreed the new Forum design is very poor. Why in the world would one intentionally apply a Windoze look and feel to forum design?
== 4 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:22 am
From: Ho
Why in the world would one intentionally apply a Windoze look and feel...
Because of its inherent superiority?
== 5 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:58 am
From: LRK@adobeforums.com
Because we don't really know what the future holds, on many levels, I would like to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude for the years of interaction and friendships we've built in both this forum, and the Photoshop Forum.
My life, and even my business, has been profoundly affected by the generous advice, interaction, encouragement, and constructive criticism I've received by so many of you.
I would like to share with you a few specifics of how my life has been enriched.
First off, I never would have even picked up a SLR had it not been for those of you who continually encouraged me when I was looking to upgrade from the Nikon 990 to another point and shoot. Not only have I been through three SLR's, but since that time I've actually being able to generate income in the realm of photography. Among some of the jobs that have come to me are weddings, portraiture, children, families, product, and more. I am aware of my limitations though and don't presume to be more than I am. For this reason I have turned down jobs that I either felt were either out of the realm of my expertise, too big for me, or too stressful. But I cannot say the opportunities have not been there.
The changes in my life spread farther because of the skills many of you have helped me acquire. I'm in my third year serving on the Board of Directors for our local pro photographer's guild and have received several awards for various volunteer work, both on a local, state, and even national level related to design work submitted to the FPP and even the PPA in both 2007 and 2008. This would never have happened had some of you not been there for me when I asked for advice.
Going farther back in history, I will never forget one of my first experiences with the Adobe Forums. I started a thread about Photo Retouching & Restoration in the Photoshop Forum. At that time I was restoring an old photo pro bono for a friend. I posted my progress along the way, and received tons of advice. This was when I became familiar with Wade, Ann, Bonnie, Scott, Neil, Buko, Chris Cox, Ken, MO, and several others. I'm trying to remember the name of that nice guy from Tampa also.
The project went on for about three months if I remember right. This was the beginning of my infamous "long" threads. Just about the time I thought the retouch job was good enough I would get another constructive criticism on something. Scott Weichert in particular. I can remember laughing as hard as I've ever laughed. I thought I was done and ready to go, and Scott pointed out that it could be better. This would mean disassembling some of my hundreds of layers to go back and get it right.
Then when I needed business advice, I started another infamous long thread, having to do with Business Pricing. Again, I received an outpouring of advice that truly made it possible for me to gain the confidence to charge more. I still have trouble with this area, but at least I can now charge enough to make it worth being in business, for which I've also been blessed.
One milestone that was crossed was when Ken Neilson sent me his sample package on how to setup Job Tickets, and keep track of client jobs, etc. This was after having lost $500 on a client job where there was confusion regarding all the different requests at different times. Ken's timely advice has saved me from making the same mistake again. To this day I think about Ken when I set up a new job ticket. Others also helped with this.
There is so much more I could go on to share with you all that would one way or another be related to some advice or support I received here at the forums.
Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention my first experience using Studio Lights at a Valentine's Banquet for portraits. I would never have pulled it off had it not been for the help I received from some of you, such as Ann, Phil, Phil Scarsbrook, Allen, Wade, and so many more. There was even the added help of phone calls from Ann Shelbourne and Phil Scarsbrook when I needed the extra help.
I'm running of time as I've been asked to take pictures at a baby shower today… so this is a rush post, and I'm sure I've forgotten to mention some of you… but please know that I am ever so grateful for the unselfishness, patience, and generosity that you all have shown to me over the years.
Whatever happens in the future, my prayers are that each of you will be blessed in some special way!
Much love to you all…
Linda
== 6 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 10:52 am
From: Ramona_Dear@adobeforums.com
wow! ... is this goodbye?
== 7 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:07 pm
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
Ramona,
probably not truly goodbye, but the new fora might make our interactions much more limited and difficult. If Adobe doesn't change their TOS stance on images posted to their servers, I don't think there are *any* of us who are willing to simply give our photos, and their respective rights, away by posting here. That alone will kill this particular forum.
I love learning and seeing what is posted here. It has expanded my knowledge and awareness of many things, photography being only one of them. One example: Fred enlightening us to what is happening to the forests around him, both in words and via his photos. I don't think I would have known much about this issue without his diligence. By the way Fred, I salute you in your efforts. :)
In short, if Adobe wants to take "credit" for our photos, who is going to post? If no one posts ... the forum dies. :(
== 8 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:21 pm
From: Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com
I certainly hope not!
This Forum has always been such a special place that i hope that it can survive the move to the decidedly different new forums.
I do think that we all need to be very careful to always post any images from a link on an external server such as pixentral (and always include both an embedded metadata Copyright statement and an obvious © Watermark) and we should NEVER post images directly into the Adobe Forums' pages even though that facility is now there.
We have no way of knowing if Adobe would ever abuse the powers that they have given themselves (whether intentionally or unintentionally) in Clause 8; but so far we have received no response from John Cornicello, or anyone else from Adobe, as to whether this matter is being investigated or the situation clarified.
== 9 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:32 pm
From: Lawrence_Hudetz@adobeforums.com
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of any new management?
== 10 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:47 pm
From: pfigen
The way I read it, anything that gets posted on the new forum, regardless of whether it's posted directly or through a link to an outside server, automatically has the non-exclusive copyright assigned to Adobe, and since there is no place to effectively cross that out, you either participate knowing that you're being taken advantage of or you move on to a less oppressive regime.
== 11 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:27 pm
From: halsch@adobeforums.com
I do not post very often in this forum, but I lurk here almost every day - when I am home.
Like Linda, I have benefitted a great deal in the last four or five years from the postings in this forum; I am not a professional, just an active amateur, but like everyone else, I do like to take good pictures and process them with some degree of competence. I have also enjoyed on many occasions the pictures posted here.
Unfortunately, all you can count on in this life is CHANGE. We will just hope that we can adapt to the new forum with some degree of the pleasure the old forum gave us.
Thank you all for the help and pleasure you have given me!!!!
Hal
== 12 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:45 pm
From: Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com
automatically has the non-exclusive copyright assigned to Adobe,
I don't think that it actually transfers the Copyright because under the law that can ONLY be transferred on a case by case basis by a signed written agreement between the two parties.
But what they are attempting to purloin are the Rights to Unlimited Use in Perpetuity and without compensation to the Artist.
If Adobe fails to amend TOS Clause 8, hopefully some well-healed lawyer will bring a Class Action Lawsuit against them — but that doesn't help us in the meantime.
== 13 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 2:21 pm
From: pfigen
Ann,
It's very possible that the language may not be legal. It's also true that most of the images posted here have never been registered with the U.S. copyright office or the copyright office from wherever they have been posted. This language is very similar to the language that record companies and even National Geographic (one of the worst offenders) have tried to use with me.
Upon further reflection, I think that the very act of you agreeing to their terms and conditions is all that's needed. You have agreed to their terms. What is needed is a legal clarification from a good copyright attorney as to what it all really means. Until then, I would not assume anything but the worst.
== 14 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:36 pm
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
and the way I am understanding it, that clause applies to *this* forum as well. Am I wrong??
== 15 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:28 pm
From: pfigen
The thought had crossed my mind too, and that is reinforced by the fact that we've had to re-sign up here, and most of us did without reading any fine print.
== 16 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:49 pm
From: Ozpeter@adobeforums.com
I'm sure we discussed this "Adobe's rights" thing months back - and the photos continued to be posted here.
== 17 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:51 pm
From: pfigen
I don't recall any such discussion. Care to call it back up?
== 18 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:08 pm
From: Ozpeter@adobeforums.com
John Cornicello posted this on the ephemeral test site -
"Might as well post the entire section...
--------------------------------------
8. Use of Your Content.
a. Adobe does not claim ownership of Your Content. However, except as provided in Section 8(b), you grant Adobe a worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display Your Content (in whole or in part) and to incorporate Your Content into other Materials or works in any format or medium now known or later developed.
And now in more common terms: We realize that this section might look a bit scary and so we want to point out a few things. This section only applies to those portions of our sites, such as User Forums, where we intend for users to share content freely with Adobe and with each other. It does not apply to all of the content that you share, contribute or post to our sites. For example, it does not apply to content hosted by Photoshop.com or Acrobat.com. For services like those, we will provide customized license grants that are consistent with the spirit and intent of those services and that are appropriate for the kinds of content we expect you to share within them. (We say this more formally below.) So we encourage you to be selective when deciding which content to contribute under this license and we want you to be sure that you are comfortable granting the above rights when it comes to that specific content.
-----------------------------------
Which basically means that you give Adobe permission to display the image on the site. Without those terms we would not not be able to display (perform, distribute, reproduce, modify (resize), publish, etc.) your image on the site.
I will see if they have some clarification on that part in italics that refers to Forums.
Thanks!"
(That's the end of what John said)
I can appreciate that professional photographers are highly sensitive to this kind of issue but it does appear to be intended to (for instance) prevent someone who has posted an image here from then demanding payment from Adobe because the company have then distributed it worldwide on their site (the forum). That's why I've suggested adding words which gives them the right only to publish it in the context in which it was posted (ie the forum or its successors, eg the new Jive version).
== 19 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:55 pm
From: Nick_Decker@adobeforums.com
Which basically means that you give Adobe permission to display the image
on the site.
Which is, I'm sure, what Adobe intended. Are they trying to cover their asses? You betcha.
Other than that, if you don't feel comfortable with posting your images here, don't. I really don't think that the recent aura of this forum being dead is justified.
== 20 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:08 pm
From: pfigen
What he's saying, if you read the translation, is that they're only going to steal images from the forums - the only place where people post images, not the business side of their website.
Those are the same terms I read, and they're still complete bs.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another Macro/Close Up Thread
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/004dbdcea2dc130a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:25 am
From: Ho
really, when was the last time you saw a flower in a foot of water?
Last June, during the midwestern floods. Didn't get a shot because I couldn't paddle with one hand.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:05 pm
From: Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com
really, when was the last time you saw a flower in a foot of water?
Much of the summer. Water lilies.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:16 pm
From: -shep-@adobeforums.com
Last June, during the midwestern floods. Didn't get a shot because I couldn't
paddle with one hand.
You might have another chance this Spring/Summer, Ho. We haven't had much precipitation for a while, but I still see water sitting above the ground where it wouldn't normally be. So, if we have anything beyond a modicum of rain this Spring, we could have some flooding again.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:08 pm
From: Donald_Reese@adobeforums.com
Guess you are right on that one.
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