Photoshop How To Use: Jun 6, 2009

Saturday, June 6, 2009

rec.photo.digital - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en

rec.photo.digital@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could you actually see photos made from RAW files?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/c04187075ef6f9c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 5:30 pm
From: floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)

Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:02:16 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>Davidson) wrote:
>
>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:27:15 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>>Or instead of your search on "voltage +quantization" (which gets
>>>>only 276,000 hits), try "voltage +analog" for 10 million hits.
>>>
>>>Its only a list of searches relating to the problems of the
>>>quantization of voltage.
>>
>>Right, now do you understand what you just said?
>>
>>The problems associated with the process of quatization of
>>voltage. Which means that voltage is analog, and there
>>are processes used to quantize it.
>
>Duh!

You original assertion is there for a "Duh!"

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 5:31 pm
From: floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)

Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:10:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>Davidson) wrote:
>
>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:45:53 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well, Eric's correct to say that at a quantum level, you're dealing with
>>>>integer numbers of photons & electrons, but he's missing the important
>>>>point, which is that an image sensor doesn't have any way of 'counting'
>>>>anything, & that the output voltage is merely an approximation of the
>>>>input signal.
>>>
>>>Which is then digitised to the necessary level of accuracy by
>>>comparison with a ramp signal.
>>
>>Comparison witha reamp signal???
>>
>>You've been doing some research, and now the whole concept of
>>digital voltmeters is confusing you just as much as are digital
>>cameras!
>
>Yeah. I did some research, way back in the mid 1960s. I did more with
>the introduction of digital music (whenever that was). So I do have
>some idea of what I am talking about.

I'm glad you told us that Eric, because it was not apparent
otherwise.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 5:40 pm
From: Eric Stevens

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:30:07 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:02:16 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>Davidson) wrote:
>>
>>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:27:15 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>>>Or instead of your search on "voltage +quantization" (which gets
>>>>>only 276,000 hits), try "voltage +analog" for 10 million hits.
>>>>
>>>>Its only a list of searches relating to the problems of the
>>>>quantization of voltage.
>>>
>>>Right, now do you understand what you just said?
>>>
>>>The problems associated with the process of quatization of
>>>voltage. Which means that voltage is analog, and there
>>>are processes used to quantize it.
>>
>>Duh!
>
>You original assertion is there for a "Duh!"

If you read and understand the papers you will realise that they are
discussing the problems of the voltage being quantized.

Eric Stevens

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 6:53 pm
From: Bob Larter

Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:29:27 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Eric Stevens wrote:
>>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:45:53 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, Eric's correct to say that at a quantum level, you're dealing with
>>>> integer numbers of photons & electrons, but he's missing the important
>>>> point, which is that an image sensor doesn't have any way of 'counting'
>>>> anything, & that the output voltage is merely an approximation of the
>>>> input signal.
>>> Which is then digitised to the necessary level of accuracy by
>>> comparison with a ramp signal.
>> You're thinking of dual-slope conversion, as used in multimeters & the
>> like. Dual-slope is very, very slow. For this sort of application (ie;
>> fast) you either use a flash converter or a fast SAR converter.
>>
>> Eg; something like this:
>> <http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad9254/products/product.html>
>> (Note that they aren't cheap.)
>
> Its too long since I was involved with anything like this but as far
> as I can see these all work by constructing a reference ramp signal
> (not necessarily linear) comprised of individual reference voltages
> with which to compare the input.

That's not the case.

> You may use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter
> to define the limits of my understanding. :-)

From that article:
---
* A direct conversion ADC or flash ADC has a bank of comparators,
each firing for their decoded voltage range. The comparator bank feeds a
logic circuit that generates a code for each voltage range. Direct
conversion is very fast, but usually has only 8 bits of resolution (255
comparators - since the number of comparators required is 2n - 1) or
fewer, as it needs a large, expensive circuit. ADCs of this type have a
large die size, a high input capacitance, and are prone to produce
glitches on the output (by outputting an out-of-sequence code). Scaling
to newer submicrometre technologies does not help as the device mismatch
is the dominant design limitation. They are often used for video,
wideband communications or other fast signals in optical storage.

* A successive-approximation ADC uses a comparator to reject ranges
of voltages, eventually settling on a final voltage range. Successive
approximation works by constantly comparing the input voltage to the
output of an internal digital to analog converter (DAC, fed by the
current value of the approximation) until the best approximation is
achieved. At each step in this process, a binary value of the
approximation is stored in a successive approximation register (SAR).
The SAR uses a reference voltage (which is the largest signal the ADC is
to convert) for comparisons. For example if the input voltage is 60 V
and the reference voltage is 100 V, in the 1st clock cycle, 60 V is
compared to 50 V (the reference, divided by two. This is the voltage at
the output of the internal DAC when the input is a '1' followed by
zeros), and the voltage from the comparator is positive (or '1')
(because 60 V is greater than 50 V). At this point the first binary
digit (MSB) is set to a '1'. In the 2nd clock cycle the input voltage is
compared to 75 V (being halfway between 100 and 50 V: This is the output
of the internal DAC when its input is '11' followed by zeros) because 60
V is less than 75 V, the comparator output is now negative (or '0'). The
second binary digit is therefore set to a '0'. In the 3rd clock cycle,
the input voltage is compared with 62.5 V (halfway between 50 V and 75
V: This is the output of the internal DAC when its input is '101'
followed by zeros). The output of the comparator is negative or '0'
(because 60 V is less than 62.5 V) so the third binary digit is set to a
0. The fourth clock cycle similarly results in the fourth digit being a
'1' (60 V is greater than 56.25 V, the DAC output for '1001' followed by
zeros). The result of this would be in the binary form 1001. This is
also called bit-weighting conversion, and is similar to a binary search.
The analogue value is rounded to the nearest binary value below, meaning
this converter type is mid-rise (see above). Because the approximations
are successive (not simultaneous), the conversion takes one clock-cycle
for each bit of resolution desired. The clock frequency must be equal to
the sampling frequency multiplied by the number of bits of resolution
desired. For example, to sample audio at 44.1 kHz with 32 bit
resolution, a clock frequency of over 1.4 MHz would be required. ADCs of
this type have good resolutions and quite wide ranges. They are more
complex than some other designs.
---

You're thinking of either a ramp-compare, dual-slope or delta-encoded
ADC, all of which are much too slow for a digital camera.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 6:56 pm
From: Bob Larter

Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:10:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
> Davidson) wrote:
>
>> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:45:53 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, Eric's correct to say that at a quantum level, you're dealing with
>>>> integer numbers of photons & electrons, but he's missing the important
>>>> point, which is that an image sensor doesn't have any way of 'counting'
>>>> anything, & that the output voltage is merely an approximation of the
>>>> input signal.
>>> Which is then digitised to the necessary level of accuracy by
>>> comparison with a ramp signal.
>> Comparison witha reamp signal???
>>
>> You've been doing some research, and now the whole concept of
>> digital voltmeters is confusing you just as much as are digital
>> cameras!
>
> Yeah. I did some research, way back in the mid 1960s. I did more with
> the introduction of digital music (whenever that was). So I do have
> some idea of what I am talking about.

All of the ramp-based converters are too slow to be any use for reading
an image sensor. It'd take *minutes* to read a single image.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 8:09 pm
From: floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)

Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:30:07 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>Davidson) wrote:
>
>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:02:16 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:27:15 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>>>>Or instead of your search on "voltage +quantization" (which gets
>>>>>>only 276,000 hits), try "voltage +analog" for 10 million hits.
>>>>>
>>>>>Its only a list of searches relating to the problems of the
>>>>>quantization of voltage.
>>>>
>>>>Right, now do you understand what you just said?
>>>>
>>>>The problems associated with the process of quatization of
>>>>voltage. Which means that voltage is analog, and there
>>>>are processes used to quantize it.
>>>
>>>Duh!
>>
>>You original assertion is there for a "Duh!"
>
>If you read and understand the papers you will realise that they are
>discussing the problems of the voltage being quantized.

Cite?

"The quantized voltage steps are then shown to result from
topological invariance of the system."
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v46/i1/p564_1

Oops, not a intrinsic characteristic of voltage, but rather a
specific environment.

"The quantization is the result of coupling between the flux
flow mode and the internal cavity resonances of the
junction."
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4069315

Oops, not a intrinsic characteristic of voltage, but rather a
specific environment.

There a couple hundred thousand others just like that...

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 8:29 pm
From: Eric Stevens

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:09:56 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:30:07 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>Davidson) wrote:
>>
>>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:02:16 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>>On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:27:15 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>>>>>>Davidson) wrote:
>>>>>>>Or instead of your search on "voltage +quantization" (which gets
>>>>>>>only 276,000 hits), try "voltage +analog" for 10 million hits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Its only a list of searches relating to the problems of the
>>>>>>quantization of voltage.
>>>>>
>>>>>Right, now do you understand what you just said?
>>>>>
>>>>>The problems associated with the process of quatization of
>>>>>voltage. Which means that voltage is analog, and there
>>>>>are processes used to quantize it.
>>>>
>>>>Duh!
>>>
>>>You original assertion is there for a "Duh!"
>>
>>If you read and understand the papers you will realise that they are
>>discussing the problems of the voltage being quantized.
>
>Cite?
>
> "The quantized voltage steps are then shown to result from
> topological invariance of the system."
> http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v46/i1/p564_1
>
>Oops, not a intrinsic characteristic of voltage, but rather a
>specific environment.
>
> "The quantization is the result of coupling between the flux
> flow mode and the internal cavity resonances of the
> junction."
> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4069315
>
>Oops, not a intrinsic characteristic of voltage, but rather a
>specific environment.
>
>There a couple hundred thousand others just like that...

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/15/5/017
"Quantum electrodynamic theory of voltage carrying states..."

Eric Stevens

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:02 pm
From: John Turco

Eric Stevens wrote:

> Dingbat - interpolation is an assential part of going from the Bayer
> array to the RAW data file. Please don't continue to pretend
> otherwise.

Hello, Eric:

"Dingbat," eh? Why don't youss dummy up, ya meathead, ya! <g>

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:25 pm
From: Eric Stevens

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:53:51 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:29:27 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:45:53 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, Eric's correct to say that at a quantum level, you're dealing with
>>>>> integer numbers of photons & electrons, but he's missing the important
>>>>> point, which is that an image sensor doesn't have any way of 'counting'
>>>>> anything, & that the output voltage is merely an approximation of the
>>>>> input signal.
>>>> Which is then digitised to the necessary level of accuracy by
>>>> comparison with a ramp signal.
>>> You're thinking of dual-slope conversion, as used in multimeters & the
>>> like. Dual-slope is very, very slow. For this sort of application (ie;
>>> fast) you either use a flash converter or a fast SAR converter.
>>>
>>> Eg; something like this:
>>> <http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad9254/products/product.html>
>>> (Note that they aren't cheap.)
>>
>> Its too long since I was involved with anything like this but as far
>> as I can see these all work by constructing a reference ramp signal
>> (not necessarily linear) comprised of individual reference voltages
>> with which to compare the input.
>
>That's not the case.
>
>> You may use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter
>> to define the limits of my understanding. :-)
>
> From that article:
>---
> * A direct conversion ADC or flash ADC has a bank of comparators,
>each firing for their decoded voltage range. The comparator bank feeds a
>logic circuit that generates a code for each voltage range. Direct
>conversion is very fast, but usually has only 8 bits of resolution (255
>comparators - since the number of comparators required is 2n - 1) or
>fewer, as it needs a large, expensive circuit. ADCs of this type have a
>large die size, a high input capacitance, and are prone to produce
>glitches on the output (by outputting an out-of-sequence code). Scaling
>to newer submicrometre technologies does not help as the device mismatch
>is the dominant design limitation. They are often used for video,
>wideband communications or other fast signals in optical storage.
>
> * A successive-approximation ADC uses a comparator to reject ranges
>of voltages, eventually settling on a final voltage range. Successive
>approximation works by constantly comparing the input voltage to the
>output of an internal digital to analog converter (DAC, fed by the
>current value of the approximation) until the best approximation is
>achieved. At each step in this process, a binary value of the
>approximation is stored in a successive approximation register (SAR).
>The SAR uses a reference voltage (which is the largest signal the ADC is
>to convert) for comparisons. For example if the input voltage is 60 V
>and the reference voltage is 100 V, in the 1st clock cycle, 60 V is
>compared to 50 V (the reference, divided by two. This is the voltage at
>the output of the internal DAC when the input is a '1' followed by
>zeros), and the voltage from the comparator is positive (or '1')
>(because 60 V is greater than 50 V). At this point the first binary
>digit (MSB) is set to a '1'. In the 2nd clock cycle the input voltage is
>compared to 75 V (being halfway between 100 and 50 V: This is the output
>of the internal DAC when its input is '11' followed by zeros) because 60
>V is less than 75 V, the comparator output is now negative (or '0'). The
>second binary digit is therefore set to a '0'. In the 3rd clock cycle,
>the input voltage is compared with 62.5 V (halfway between 50 V and 75
>V: This is the output of the internal DAC when its input is '101'
>followed by zeros). The output of the comparator is negative or '0'
>(because 60 V is less than 62.5 V) so the third binary digit is set to a
>0. The fourth clock cycle similarly results in the fourth digit being a
>'1' (60 V is greater than 56.25 V, the DAC output for '1001' followed by
>zeros). The result of this would be in the binary form 1001. This is
>also called bit-weighting conversion, and is similar to a binary search.
>The analogue value is rounded to the nearest binary value below, meaning
>this converter type is mid-rise (see above). Because the approximations
>are successive (not simultaneous), the conversion takes one clock-cycle
>for each bit of resolution desired. The clock frequency must be equal to
>the sampling frequency multiplied by the number of bits of resolution
>desired. For example, to sample audio at 44.1 kHz with 32 bit
>resolution, a clock frequency of over 1.4 MHz would be required. ADCs of
>this type have good resolutions and quite wide ranges. They are more
>complex than some other designs.
>---
>
>You're thinking of either a ramp-compare, dual-slope or delta-encoded
>ADC, all of which are much too slow for a digital camera.

Yes, once you have reference voltages you don't need to re-establish
them every ti. But just out of curiousity, how are they established in
the first place?

Eric Stevens

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:27 pm
From: Eric Stevens

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:56:17 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:10:45 -0800, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>> Davidson) wrote:
>>
>>> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:45:53 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, Eric's correct to say that at a quantum level, you're dealing with
>>>>> integer numbers of photons & electrons, but he's missing the important
>>>>> point, which is that an image sensor doesn't have any way of 'counting'
>>>>> anything, & that the output voltage is merely an approximation of the
>>>>> input signal.
>>>> Which is then digitised to the necessary level of accuracy by
>>>> comparison with a ramp signal.
>>> Comparison witha reamp signal???
>>>
>>> You've been doing some research, and now the whole concept of
>>> digital voltmeters is confusing you just as much as are digital
>>> cameras!
>>
>> Yeah. I did some research, way back in the mid 1960s. I did more with
>> the introduction of digital music (whenever that was). So I do have
>> some idea of what I am talking about.
>
>All of the ramp-based converters are too slow to be any use for reading
>an image sensor. It'd take *minutes* to read a single image.

I'm not suggesting that this is how it is done with image sensors. I
was just using this, along with my brick and spring-balance analogy to
explain to Floyd how a nominally analog voltage signal can be used to
digitize data.

Eric Stevens

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No more doubts about the SB900 power !!! (sample photos)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/048eb5829deae882?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:01 pm
From: Bob Larter

Savageduck wrote:
> On 2009-06-06 03:52:57 -0700, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com> said:
>
>> Hi ASSar-The-Troll! wrote:
>>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:56:24 -0400, ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 01:04:26 +0100, Bertram Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, I'll fill you in.
>>>>>>> No I didn't "set" the flash at all. It was on 16mm, iTTL. The
>>>>>>> fact that you
>>>>>>> read somewhere 24mm, is because that's the value converted to
>>>>>>> 35mm size. 1.5
>>>>>>> X 16 = 24.
>>>>> <CUT, lot of bla, bla, but no facts>
>>>> Ha. Lots of facts presented ("Just the facts, ma'am") and not a
>>>> one disputed or disproved. Big guy's acting like a little baby. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I should have know better than to take a clown serious....
>>>> We all discovered that you don't deserve to be taken seriously
>>>> when we found out that most of the comments posted to Focus's
>>>> website (or was it Sosumi's? so hard keeping those socks separated)
>>>> were from one Mssr. Bertram Paul, who was just seeding his own
>>>> website with fake activity. Very seedy, Berty. And you couldn't
>>>> even get that part right. The sock puppets should have been the
>>>> shills, not you. Or is it possible that you're not really the good
>>>> old Berty you now claim to be?
>>>
>>> Oh dear. The resident pretend-photographer, basement-living,
>>> net-stalking
>>> troll ASSar has gone psychotic once again. He's again imagining that
>>> anyone
>>> that voices an experienced opinion on the net that is contrary to his
>>> arm-chair-photographer, downloaded-manuals, net-knowledge is all the
>>> same
>>> person.
>>>
>>> Someone up his meds, STAT.
>>>
>>> Let us all know when you actually hold a real camera someday, ASSar. We
>>> might all applaud. Tell your mommy to buy you a "Barbie Cam" the next
>>> time
>>> that she's getting a case of Twinkies to throw down the
>>> basement-stairs at
>>> you, because she too has given up on wanting to know you. It'll at
>>> least be
>>> a start. Your mother's not rolling in her grave, she just wish she could
>>> find one after expelling after-birth like you.
>>
>> Your comments might carry some weight if you hadn't posted them
>> through a sock-puppet.
>
> Check the headers.
>
> "Hi 'ASSar-The-Troll'" is our old pal the P&S troll.

Yeah, you're right.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Practicing hydroponics
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/288895b813a28c10?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:04 pm
From: Nicko

On Jun 6, 7:20 pm, "Miguel" <responderalgr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I did some photos about personal practices of hydroponics:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3602179476/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3602182448/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3601373507/

Nice to see that you finally got out of that church.

You are growing an avocado! Cool. I have found it really difficult
to get avocado pits to germinate. How did you do it? Just by
suspending it in water? I have tried to do this a a few times but
only got one to sprout.

But dude! I hope you stopped this guy from strangling this person:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3584420394/

--
YOP...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does anybody have an answer?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/c4ad2c7afb485eca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:03 pm
From: Bob Larter

footless crow wrote:
> I'm not too sure about the practicalities of the modular idea but I
> certainly think that the DSLR manufacturers are missing something.
> It would be good to see a digital version of an utterly simple but
> very high quality camera such as the Nikon FM.

I thought that was the idea behind the Leica/Panasonic digital?

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Changing File Date
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/b26de0af051fe004?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:06 pm
From: Boris

Hi,

I've got a Kodak Z612, and the date was not set correctly. Is there any
way to change the date on the files now that they are on my pc (Windows
XPHome)?

Thanks.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:11 pm
From: Boris

Boris <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:Xns9C22C26AA5DEDnospamnospaminvalid@85.214.105.209:

> Hi,
>
> I've got a Kodak Z612, and the date was not set correctly. Is there any
> way to change the date on the files now that they are on my pc (Windows
> XPHome)?
>
> Thanks.
>

Hmmm...anyone use this:

http://www.petges.lu/

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 7:14 pm
From: ray

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:06:46 +0000, Boris wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've got a Kodak Z612, and the date was not set correctly. Is there any
> way to change the date on the files now that they are on my pc (Windows
> XPHome)?
>
> Thanks.

Sure. All you have to do is edit the EXIF meta data. Search for EXIF
editor.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 8:27 pm
From: Boris

ray <ray@zianet.com> wrote in news:790m3nF1o4eu7U3@mid.individual.net:

> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:06:46 +0000, Boris wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've got a Kodak Z612, and the date was not set correctly. Is there any
>> way to change the date on the files now that they are on my pc (Windows
>> XPHome)?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Sure. All you have to do is edit the EXIF meta data. Search for EXIF
> editor.
>

And that will also edit the date that Windows Explorer shows, too? That's
exactly what I'm trying to do. Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: grim news for photographers tourism and rights
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f739094ebddaa70e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:01 pm
From: John Turco

tony cooper wrote:

> As you might guess, words, word history, and English usage are of
> great interest to me. According to the "Word Detective", the origin
> of "rap sheet" is:
>
> <begin quote>
>
> "Rap" is one of those English words so old that they have acquired all
> sorts of meanings. First appearing in the 14th century, "rap" is
> almost certainly of onomatopoeic or "echoic" origin, meaning that it
> arose as an imitation of the sound of an action, in this case tapping
> or knocking on something. The original meaning of "rap" as a noun was
> "a blow," especially a sharp but not severe blow from a stick. By the
> 17th century, "rap" was being used to mean a sharp knock on something,
> such as a door.
>
> Shortly thereafter, "rap" came to be used figuratively to mean "a
> sharp criticism or complaint," and by the 18th century "rap" had
> entered the argot of thieves (and law enforcement) as slang for "a
> criminal charge" or "punishment." Various phrases based on this use,
> including "bum rap" meaning "an unfounded charge" and "beat the rap"
> meaning "to escape punishment," percolated from criminal use into our
> general vocabulary in the 20th century. And it is this sense of "rap"
> that we find in "rap sheet," the official record of charges lodged at
> various times against a particular person. Oddly enough, although
> "rap sheets" in some form probably date back to at least the 19th
> century, the term has not been found in print earlier than 1960.
>
> <end quote>
>
> My usual source for information on word and term origin is Michael
> Quinion's "World Wide Words". He doesn't have anything on "rap
> sheet", though.
>
> I'm surprised that the "Word Detective" (Evan Morris) can't find an
> earlier appearance of the term than 1960. I'll check that out.

Hello, Tony:

Yes, that's somewhat puzzling! One may logically assume that - with
all those decades of countless "dime novels" being published - there
would be many examples of "rap sheet" readily available for citation,
before 1960.

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:02 pm
From: John Turco

Chris H wrote:
>
> In message <4A275F5D.1571299F@concentric.net>, John Turco
> <jtur@concentric.net> writes
> >Chris H wrote:
> >>
> >> In message <t0u725dmrt05bu44k05nn4okhqgec3s75h@4ax.com>,
> >> ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.tractor@hotmail.co.uk> writes
> >> >On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:27:15 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>There are wrongs on both sides. Why do photographers think they have a
> >> >>>moral right to photograph people?
> >> >>
> >> >>Because the law says they can.
> >> >
> >> >does that make it morally right?
> >>
> >> The law is an absolute.
> >>
> >> Morals are not. And Yes it is *MORALLY* right.. God told me so :-)
> >
> >
> >Hello, Chris:
> >
> >Infidel! Blasphemer! When did >I< tell you such a thing? <G>
>
> HEATHEN!
>
> YOU ARE NOT GOD!
> God is sitting here telling me that you are the FALSE GOD and only he is
> the TRUE GOD

Hello, Chris:

Thou doth speaketh such gibberish! Whence thou came...the Tower of Babel?

> MY interpretation of the scriptures is the only correct one. When God
> said love one another what he meat was:
>
> Love one another... except the gays, spics, wogs, Catholics, Jews and
> that funny looking family down the road on the left and any one with the
> Devils name (John) .

Nay! The Devil is known by "Lucifer," "Satan" and other infamous names.

Thou hast proven thyself to be the true Anti-Christ; whilst I, the
Almighty, am the only Anti-Chris.

Thou shalt soon be cast asunder, o evil one! <g>

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sixteen Reasons to choose a Digital SLR over a Point and Shoot
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/cca1e1bb3b88f141?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:02 pm
From: John Turco

Bob Larter wrote:
>
> John Turco wrote:
> > Bob Larter wrote:
> >> John Turco wrote:
> >>> Doug Jewell wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <heavily edited for brevity>
> >>>
> >>>> Build quality is another area where the Pentax excels, it
> >>>> feels solid in your hand, whereas the Canon feels light and
> >>>> cheap. The Pentax lenses, even the kit lens, feel well made
> >>>> and solid.
> >>> <edited>
> >>>
> >>> Hello, Doug:
> >>>
> >>> Precisely! My Pentax K100D feels like a tank, compared with the
> >>> "plasticky" Nikon and Canon DSLR display models I've handled, in
> >>> local stores.
> >> Shit, you wouldn't say that if you picked up my Canon EOS 1Dmk2. It
> >> weighs a ton, & is built like a tank.
> >
> >
> > Hello, Bob:
> >
> > Is the 1Dmk2 an "entry level" DSLR, as is the K100D?
>
> Of course not. I didn't realise that the thread was only about
> entry-level cameras.

Hello, Bob:

I never claimed such a thing. Although, it does seem to indicate that
(unlike Nikon and Canon, apparently), Pentax doesn't compromise build
quality, even on its "base" models.

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trick Kodak z1285s to recharge regular rechargable batteries?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d80b9951f5765f8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:02 pm
From: John Turco

Evan Platt wrote:
>
> On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:46:20 -0500, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello, Evan:
> >
> >My own Kodak AA packs (e.g., KAA2HR) are of the Ni-MH type, I should
> >add.
>
> Yeah, I've got a few of those - 1800 mah NiMh.
>
> >Also, putting Li-Ion batteries into any charger, other than one that's
> >expressly made to accept them, is not only counterproductive, it's
> >extremely dangerous -- as explosions can even ensue!
> >
> >Just a word to the wise, eh? ;-)
>
> Ok.. appreciate the advise. I think I'll follow that.
>
> Before I go and buy more - is a 1800 mah LiIon a real big enough
> advantage over a 1800 mah NiMH?
>
> I have a few 1800 mah NiMh's and the easyshare dock, and just bought 2
> 1800 mah LiOn's with the seperate charger. If there's a good enough
> advantage with LiIOn's, I'll get a few more...
>
> Thanks. :)

Hello, Evan:

If your Ni-MH and Li-Ion packs are of the same "form factor" (e.g., AA)
and mAh rating, then, there's no major "advantage" to Li-Ion, whatsoever.

In fact, all things being equal (as they >are<, in your specific case),
Ni-MH is better, as it has a significantly greater "shelf life" than
Li-Ion does.

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 10:31 pm
From: "David J Taylor"

John Turco wrote:
[]
> Hello, Evan:
>
> If your Ni-MH and Li-Ion packs are of the same "form factor" (e.g.,
> AA) and mAh rating, then, there's no major "advantage" to Li-Ion,
> whatsoever.
>
> In fact, all things being equal (as they >are<, in your specific
> case), Ni-MH is better, as it has a significantly greater "shelf
> life" than Li-Ion does.
>
>
> Cordially,
> John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

More correctly, Li-ion has a finite life whether used or not. However, in
terms of being ready-to-use, Li-ion does not have the high self-discharge
characteristic of most NiMH cells, so you are less likely to pick up cells
(which you thought were fully charged) after a couple of months and find
they have only a fraction of their rated capacity. On the other hand, one
NiMH type - Sanyo "eneloop" cells and copies - do not have this problem,
although they tend to have slightly less capacity.

David

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dpreview getting paranoid in its old age
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d233184892e2a160?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 9:02 pm
From: John Turco

Bob Larter wrote:
>
> RichA wrote:
> > I've noticed a lot of long-time posters there getting banned, posts
> > getting deleted and it seems like the reason has little to do with
> > actual problems, but more to do with how the advertisers might look on
> > the site.
>
> They banned you for trolling, eh?

Hello, Bob:

Don't you know his secret? By day, he's Rich Anderson, mild-mannered
garbage collector in a major Canadian city.

But, when night falls, he becomes..............Captain Canuck!

Yes, Captain Canuck, strange troll from another country. He fights a
never-ending battle against plastic-bodied digicams, virtually all P&S
models, Canon, Kodak, Chinese spammers, etc., etc., etc., etc.

Rich still shouldn't quit his day job, underqualified as he is. :-J

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ungrateful Olympus
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/83d64699c3ca7926?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 11:20 pm
From: "Al Eagator"

"RichA" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f33ab277-cc9e-40e3-b2ae-8f551926abdf@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> They made a big to do about inviting all the "photographic
> journalists" to Germany to view the new E-1P unveiling but no mention
> was made about the people who keep Olympus afloat, the users. The
> journalists of the photographic world have not exactly embraced
> Olympus offerings. Some have been very hostile to them. Obviously,
> you need the journalists (paid off or otherwise) to push the product,
> but the users, many quite loyal to a fault deserved some mention, IMO.

They invited me and I told them to go and get fucked!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is Canon about to do something good again?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/e2fa28d295029dc5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 6 2009 11:52 pm
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)

RichA <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>Making DSLRs in Japan? Wow!

Trolling again? Yawn.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

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[fnftwo] Last for the night

Gonna call it a night, God bless everyone and I hope to see you tomorrow

No tut

Created By Jean

[fnftwo] New Dream tag

Thanks for looking,

Barry

letter by bjmehn

font TNR

tubes supplied and shared

Dream tag

[PSP-Snags] Re: cute pigs

Pretty cute thank you,

Is it okay to use these to make tags with them,

and is this watermark i put on them Pring's Pngs

From Agnes

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 6:21 AM, <Jring2333@aol.com> wrote:

Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $50. Take a Peek!

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