Photoshop How To Use: Jun 25, 2009

Thursday, June 25, 2009

rec.photo.digital - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en

rec.photo.digital@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anything for the Perfect Shot
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/060da06a542937ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:37 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009062520055847408-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2009-06-25 19:55:33 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:
>
>>
>> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:0oadncRsfuRbu97XnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@giganews.com...
>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:F76dnQ_jBvdwSt_XnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> "John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:90g545lnt2mhmfvjprho390lrm2mtjnqro@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:51:38 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote in <z4idnWeYSOB0At_XnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4a4207c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>> You know that in most browsers you can resize the fonts on
>>>>>>>> websites,
>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>> No. I have no idea how to do that.
>>>>>> Ctrl key and + key
>>>>>> Ctrl key and - key
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, I would also have to be able to
>>>>>>> change the contrast, to get them to like print BLACK on WHITE (for
>>>>>>> example)
>>>>>>> For some stupid reason, many sites print dark gray on light gray, or
>>>>>>> gray on
>>>>>>> a black background. (in order to waste gallons of my ink when I try
>>>>>>> to print
>>>>>>> anything out)
>>>>>> Select and Copy the text to the Clipboard; Paste into Notepad; Print.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have Windows VISTA. Trying to do anything on Windows Vista
>>>>>>> is kind of like pulling teeth with a pair of long nosed pliers.
>>>>>> Not so hard if you use the Help system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only way
>>>>>>> I can disable programs (for example) is to change the names on their
>>>>>>> folders, so my machine can't find them on start up and I can get to
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> use my machine for something within a half hour or so from when I
>>>>>>> turn it
>>>>>>> on......
>>>>>> Just Uninstall them in Control Panel.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It says, "You are not authorized to do that." and, I can't seem to
>>>>> find out how to authorize myself.......I am able to change the name of
>>>>> the folders, however, so I have done that to all the programs I want
>>>>> to disable.....Now, my machine can't find them...:^) I changed the
>>>>> name of "the Weather Channel" to "the Heather Channel" (for example)
>>>>> so I don't get that stupid pop-up anymore. And there's a good example
>>>>> of a useless program that Microsoft incorporates into their Windows
>>>>> Program list.......It has no purpose whatsoever, other than to pay
>>>>> back some guy for some favor he must have done for Bill Gates or
>>>>> somebody..........
>>>>
>>>> I also stopped Google Desktop from working by changing it's name to
>>>> "Deskhop". - The problem is, after I'm dead, when some teenager tries
>>>> to use my machine, he/she won't have the slightest idea why it doesn't
>>>> work right! Teenagers don't know how to read anymore, and that will be
>>>> their undoing......I will be laughing my ass off. (assuming there's an
>>>> afterlife)
>>> Actually, the teen will probably understand, immediately, that someone
>>> didn't know how to use the computer before, and will log in as
>>> administrator, uninstall the offending programs, and install his own,
>>> and live happily ever after.
>>
>> And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Dummies-Special-Bundle-Computers/dp/0470121033/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1245985425&sr=8-1
>
I have, "Windows Vista, Inside Out" "Deluxe Edition" , and it does tell me
how to log in as the Administrator. Why I should have to do this is beyond
me. I am my computer's only user, and I purchased it with my own money. Why
on earth must I be somebody else in order to do whatever I want with it? If
I want to disable some program, it should just let me do it. The reason why
I disabled my program by changing the name on the folder is because that's
beautifully reversible. Disabling it in some other way may not be. In the
long run, I have learned very little about computers from books. Most of
what I know about them I discovered by trial and error. Certainly everything
I can really remember came about in this fashion. And this is why I know
that the people who program them are really insane....:^)

== 2 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:54 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 20:37:28 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:

>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009062520055847408-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> On 2009-06-25 19:55:33 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:

>> --------------<since this has been discussed to death, it has been
>> vapourized>----------

>> And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Dummies-Special-Bundle-Computers/dp/0470121033/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1245985425&sr=8-1

I
>>
> have, "Windows Vista, Inside Out" "Deluxe Edition" , and it does tell
> me how to log in as the Administrator. Why I should have to do this is
> beyond me. I am my computer's only user, and I purchased it with my own
> money. Why on earth must I be somebody else in order to do whatever I
> want with it? If I want to disable some program, it should just let me
> do it. The reason why I disabled my program by changing the name on the
> folder is because that's beautifully reversible. Disabling it in some
> other way may not be. In the long run, I have learned very little about
> computers from books. Most of what I know about them I discovered by
> trial and error. Certainly everything I can really remember came about
> in this fashion. And this is why I know that the people who program
> them are really insane....:^)

Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you
and any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably
best that you continue to march to your different drum.

...but then live with the consequences of that, and don't complain even
after you have been presented with solutions.
It is appears you live to complain, and having whatever you use
functioning optimally is not something you would put any effort into,
as you would not be able to complain about it.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

== 3 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:10 pm
From: tony cooper

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:37:28 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I have, "Windows Vista, Inside Out" "Deluxe Edition" , and it does tell me
>how to log in as the Administrator. Why I should have to do this is beyond
>me. I am my computer's only user, and I purchased it with my own money. Why
>on earth must I be somebody else in order to do whatever I want with it?

Well, you see, Bill, the manufacturer of that computer didn't know
your name when they built it. It's not like Tengu shouted over to
Tuan "Hai, Tuan...this one for Bill Graham. Makee sure it have log
in for Bill Graham name." (Rough translation from Malay language.)
So they gave you the name "Administrator". That's a very big
compliment in Malaysia. It means "very important man even though he
smell of stale sweat and jock itch powder".

Just be glad they don't make you sign in as "User". "User", in the
Bahasa Melaya dialect, means "man with loose farts because of
stretched anus". This is a joke they often pull when they know the
computer is being shipped to the US because the only American movie
ever shown on Malaysian television was "Deliverance".

I'd tell you what "Vista" means in Malaysia but it would make you
blush. All I can say is that it is physically impossible for a snake
and a tapir to consummate a relationship even if they *could* assume
that position. It's a myth.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

== 4 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:13 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:55:33 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
wrote in <K7ednZgb2YM6pdnXnZ2dnUVZ_hydnZ2d@giganews.com>:

>>[HUGE SNIP]

Please trim quotes down to the relevant portion.
Thanks.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 5 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:14 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:05:58 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in
<2009062520055847408-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom>:

>>[HUGE SNIP]

Please trim quotes down to the relevant portion.
Thanks.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 6 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:24 pm
From: Jürgen Exner

"Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?

Just a suggestion:
On the login screen (you know how to get there, do you?) you could enter
the user-ID and password for an account that is an adminstrator account.

No, you cannot install Vista without creating such an account.
And no, you cannot delete this account without creating an alternate
administrator account first, either.

If you forgot which account you used as the admin account or what you
used as the password, then that's your problem, not Vista's.

jue

== 7 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:29 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you and
> any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably best
> that you continue to march to your different drum.

What does, "RTFM" mean?

== 8 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:32 pm
From: Jürgen Exner

"Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>I have, "Windows Vista, Inside Out" "Deluxe Edition" , and it does tell me
>how to log in as the Administrator. Why I should have to do this is beyond
>me.

Obviously you don't know squat even about the most basic computer safety
precautions.

>I am my computer's only user, and I purchased it with my own money. Why
>on earth must I be somebody else in order to do whatever I want with it? If
>I want to disable some program, it should just let me do it.

Yeah, right. Apparently you've never heard of malware, viruses, worms,
trojans, ...
Or just good old plain human errors.

>The reason why
>I disabled my program by changing the name on the folder is because that's
>beautifully reversible. Disabling it in some other way may not be. In the
>long run, I have learned very little about computers from books. Most of
>what I know about them I discovered by trial and error.

Let's just leave it at: it shows.

>Certainly everything
>I can really remember came about in this fashion. And this is why I know
>that the people who program them are really insane....:^)

Although many people share your opinion they do it for different reasons
and with much more justification.
You haven't even begun to even scratch the surface as far as computer
knowledge goes. And this NG is certainly not the proper place for
training in that area.

jue

== 9 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:34 pm
From: John McWilliams

Bill Graham wrote:
>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you
>> and any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is
>> probably best that you continue to march to your different drum.
>
> What does, "RTFM" mean?

RTFM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RTFM is an acronym for the statement "Read The Fucking Manual". This
instruction is sometimes given in response to a question when the person
being asked ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM

The above was the first hit when said acronym was typed into the Google
search bar.

== 10 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:42 pm
From: nospam

In article <d6mdnfAsO-AE09nXnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Bill Graham
<weg9@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you and
> > any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably best
> > that you continue to march to your different drum.
>
> What does, "RTFM" mean?

read the f'in manual or read the fine manual.

== 11 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:43 pm
From: Jürgen Exner

"Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you and
>> any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably best
>> that you continue to march to your different drum.
>
>What does, "RTFM" mean?

"Read The Fine Manual"

You may substitute other words for "fine" at your pleasure.

jue

== 12 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:43 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> ...but then live with the consequences of that, and don't complain even
> after you have been presented with solutions.
> It is appears you live to complain, and having whatever you use
> functioning optimally is not something you would put any effort into, as
> you would not be able to complain about it.

You've got to be kidding......I have spent many hundreds of hours
reconfiguring my machine to get it to function the way I want it to. It
still doesn't, "function optimally" because of dozens of pop-ups that slow
it down, and annoy me, usually at start-up. I spend many unhappy hours
removing extraneous software from it in order to get rid of these, but many
still keep coming back, inexplicably, even though I go through the "proper"
procedure to get rid of them. As a matter of fact, I have come to the
conclusion that what this thing really is, is another TV set, whose basic
purpose in life is to deliver ads to me under the guise of being some kind
of useful tool and/or information source. To me, its still up in the air
weather or not it is worth all the trouble it gives me. To be sure, it does
do, or is at least capable of doing some miraculous things, but at the same
time, it generates so many problems that most of the time I find that I am
behind schedule trying to keep up with it. I have several friends who tell
me they are glad they don't own one of these beasts, and I find it very hard
to argue with them. They certainly get to spend a lot more time with their
grandchildren than I do with mine.

== 13 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:49 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"John McWilliams" <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h21j9h$4gn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Bill Graham wrote:
>>
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
>> news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>>> Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you
>>> and any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably
>>> best that you continue to march to your different drum.
>>
>> What does, "RTFM" mean?
>
> RTFM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> RTFM is an acronym for the statement "Read The Fucking Manual". This
> instruction is sometimes given in response to a question when the person
> being asked ...
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM
>
> The above was the first hit when said acronym was typed into the Google
> search bar.

Oh. This would be good advice, were I to have a F-ing manual, but alas, this
is not the case. I do not even have the same machine I purchased. That one
didn't work, so I had to replace the motherboard and CPU chip with another
one. I do, however, have a good book on Windows VISTA. Now, if I only had
the time to read it.........

== 14 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:03 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2gi845dsuji65ph84jg99s8ri1pl46hl9r@4ax.com...
> "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>>And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?
>
> Just a suggestion:
> On the login screen (you know how to get there, do you?) you could enter
> the user-ID and password for an account that is an adminstrator account.
>
> No, you cannot install Vista without creating such an account.
> And no, you cannot delete this account without creating an alternate
> administrator account first, either.
>
> If you forgot which account you used as the admin account or what you
> used as the password, then that's your problem, not Vista's.
>
> jue

That's not what my book says. It says to go to the start menu search box,
and type in "cmd" Then press ctl+shift+enter, and respond in the affirmative
to the UAC prompt, and enter the following command: net user administrator
/active:yes then the administrator account will appear on my welcome
screen, and I will be able to use it like any other account.

I have not done this yet, so there may be something wrong with it......It
certainly wouldn't surprise me if this were the case. But I'll try it the
next time I've got a couple of hours to screw around instead of doing
something useful, like arranging some music for my band.

== 15 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:05 pm
From: Jürgen Exner

"Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>You've got to be kidding......I have spent many hundreds of hours
>reconfiguring my machine to get it to function the way I want it to. It
>still doesn't, "function optimally" because of dozens of pop-ups that slow
>it down, and annoy me, usually at start-up. I spend many unhappy hours
>removing extraneous software from it in order to get rid of these, but many
>still keep coming back, inexplicably, even though I go through the "proper"
>procedure to get rid of them.

And you really still wonder, why you need different accounts/account
types for daily work and for system adminstration?
Oh man, that is about as dense as depleated uranium.

[...]
>To me, its still up in the air
>weather or not it is worth all the trouble it gives me. To be sure, it does
>do, or is at least capable of doing some miraculous things, but at the same
>time, it generates so many problems that most of the time I find that I am
>behind schedule trying to keep up with it.

Would you drive a car without receiving proper instruction first? Would
you pilot an airplane without proper training?

A computer is many, many times more complex than a small airplane and
still people expect they could master it without any training. And then
become frustrated when because of their self-taught attempts they make
less progress than the Wright brothers.

On my two systems I spent maybe 2-3 hours four times a year for
maintenance, not more. And they mostly just run as I want them to run
without any viruses and popups and annoying startup delays.

>I have several friends who tell
>me they are glad they don't own one of these beasts, and I find it very hard
>to argue with them. They certainly get to spend a lot more time with their
>grandchildren than I do with mine.

Piloting isn't for everyone, neither is administering a computer. There
is a reason why qualified computer adminstrators are paid big money by
big companies. Those companies know that being cheap can be very
expensive.

jue

== 16 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:12 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AcydnXkyDMKQz9nXnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@giganews.com...

I am compelled to say, however, that you guys have been very helpful, even
if you do have some attitude problems. I have learned a lot more from you
than I would have from some computer help group. The reason for this is
obvious to me. You guys, for the most part, speak English. I still don't
know exactly what language the people in those computer help groups speak,
but it certainly isn't any language that I can understand.

== 17 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:24 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 21:29:14 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:

>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> Since you do not seem to actually RTFM to use what is available to you
>> and any user, on any computer, PC, Mac or Linux machine, it is probably
>> best that you continue to march to your different drum.
>
> What does, "RTFM" mean?

READ THE F#!%^ MANUAL !!
--
Regards,

Savageduck

== 18 of 18 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:29 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 21:43:57 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:

>
> "Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
> news:2009062520543516807-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>> ...but then live with the consequences of that, and don't complain even
>> after you have been presented with solutions.
>> It is appears you live to complain, and having whatever you use
>> functioning optimally is not something you would put any effort into,
>> as you would not be able to complain about it.
>
> You've got to be kidding......I have spent many hundreds of hours
> reconfiguring my machine to get it to function the way I want it to. It
> still doesn't, "function optimally" because of dozens of pop-ups that
> slow it down, and annoy me, usually at start-up. I spend many unhappy
> hours removing extraneous software from it in order to get rid of
> these, but many still keep coming back, inexplicably, even though I go
> through the "proper" procedure to get rid of them. As a matter of fact,
> I have come to the conclusion that what this thing really is, is
> another TV set, whose basic purpose in life is to deliver ads to me
> under the guise of being some kind of useful tool and/or information
> source. To me, its still up in the air weather or not it is worth all
> the trouble it gives me. To be sure, it does do, or is at least capable
> of doing some miraculous things, but at the same time, it generates so
> many problems that most of the time I find that I am behind schedule
> trying to keep up with it. I have several friends who tell me they are
> glad they don't own one of these beasts, and I find it very hard to
> argue with them. They certainly get to spend a lot more time with their
> grandchildren than I do with mine.

Well that's Vista for ya!

Time to sell that machine, put your feet up, and find a good book to read.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Comparing photos
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/fa51892d4a1ebf21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:47 pm
From: "Miguel"

"PatM" <groups@artisticphotography.us> escribió en el mensaje
news:a36a5718-2ef6-4792-af69-be3397e7f8ab@f30g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:30 pm, "Miguel" <responderalgr...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A time ago I did this photo that I have tried a little to improve:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3660332190
>
> Now with a different person but in the same place and in the same row but
> of
> different angle I did the following photo:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3660332206
>
> In the first photo I tried to show to the person and the aspects around,
> and
> in the second photo. I tried to show to the person at the moment of the
> exposition.
>
> Thanks to all for your comments about photography.
>
> --
> Miguel M. Yalánhttp://mmyv.com

Hello, I did a change in the second photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3660332206/

Thanks to all for your comments about photography.

--
Miguel M. Yalán
http://mmyv.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Future of the megapixel race
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/c78a5377356e2e48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:17 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:24:51 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote
in <250620092124514719%nospam@nospam.invalid>:

>In article <MPG.24ae937c1a3cd1bc98c044@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
>Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> You can't make such blanket statements. That depends of course on the
>> implementation.
>
>it does depend on the implementation, but absent a breakthrough in
>physics or manufacturing, it remains true.

Actually it doesn't, as ample objective evidence makes clear.
Read my original post more carefully and with a more open mind.

>there's no free lunch.

Red herring.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 9:49 pm
From: nospam

In article <usi845t6hufndn7lbm1c2qd4un84dj4an5@4ax.com>, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> >> You can't make such blanket statements. That depends of course on the
> >> implementation.
> >
> >it does depend on the implementation, but absent a breakthrough in
> >physics or manufacturing, it remains true.
>
> Actually it doesn't, as ample objective evidence makes clear.

such as what?

> Read my original post more carefully and with a more open mind.

your post doesn't say anything about full colour sensors.

making a full colour sensor, at least with today's technology, requires
taking a full pixel and dividing it up into 3 (or more) parts. foveon
does it in layers and nikon's patent uses dichroic mirrors and
sub-pixels within a pixel. by dividing up the pixel, noise goes up,
that's just basic physics. maybe one day someone will come up with a
different technology but that's how it is today.

plus, nikon's patent looks like a bitch to manufacture, but maybe they
have solved that problem. nevertheless, it's vapor at the moment.
foveon is also expensive to manufacture.

that might change one day, but as of right now, bayer is the most cost
effective solution and it works quite well and far better than the full
colour pixel advocates believe.

> >there's no free lunch.
>
> Red herring.

uh, no.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHDK P&S Cameras Soar Above All Others Again - Photos From the
Stratosphere - Again
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/481ec56ed2cf8bd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:29 pm
From: John Turco

Sidny@mash.com wrote:

<heavily edited for brevity>

> What I do regret is having bought a couple of 'P&S' cameras for $2500 over the
> last few years, and getting the worst shit pictures I've ever seen! I regret
> only getting $150 for a Minolta Dimage I paid $1500 for. I regret having shit
> photos of my late Sister and Father taken on P&S crap cameras. I wish I had
> better images of the past. I wish I had got a DSLR in 2000 instead of the P&S
> shit.

Hello, Sidny:

You're looking at things, the wrong way. With cherished pictures - such as those,
of your deceased loved ones - what's most meaningful, by a large margin, is the
fact they >exist<, at all.

That's why digital photography is so wonderful...it's far cheaper and much easier,
than film ever was. The small and affordable P&S digicams, in particular, allow
users to capture a wider variety of images, than a bulky DSLR could typically
manage.

Just be glad that you have so many (supposedly) crummy shots of your late father
and sister; and even more importantly, continue taking pix of the relatives and
friends, who are still alive.

Hence, for posterity's sake, as well as your own happiness -- keep on snappin',
brother! <g>

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Whatever happened to the "single pixel" camera idea?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/132ae2d328416321?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:30 pm
From: John Turco

Robert Coe wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:09:27 +1200, mike <m.fee@irl.cri.replacethiswithnz>
> wrote:
> : In article <nead35ll5050rrq35q730s2arts3b6g9jf@4ax.com>,
> : eric.stevens@sum.co.nz says...
> : > On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:23:58 -0700 (PDT), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com>
> : > wrote:
> : >
> : > >I remember reading about it a few years back.
> : >
> : >
> : > Here is the result of Google search on the subject.
> : > http://tinyurl.com/nfz78b
> : >
> : > The idea still seems to be alive and well.
> : >
> : I took a look at "Physics Buzz", the first link in the search. How
> : the hell did they get the mandrill to sit still for 15 minutes?
>
> They read him mind-numbing gibberish from Rich's Usenet articles.
>
> Bob

Hello, Bob:

How could you abide such blatant cruelty to animals? :-)

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Shot Seen 'Round the World
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/15107f2ca666bb2e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:30 pm
From: John Turco

Chris H wrote:
>
> In message <4A3F3E7C.CD50C6E3@concentric.net>, John Turco
> <jtur@concentric.net> writes
> >Chris H wrote:
> >>
> >> In message <4A39BF13.AAF53A01@concentric.net>, John Turco
> >
> ><edited for brevity>
> >
> >> >Basketball is an American invention, which became internationally
> >> >popular. It's probably the world's most widespread team sport, in
> >> >fact.
> >>
> >> Not compared to football
> >
> >
> >Hello, Chris:
> >
> >All right...read it and weep. <g>
>
> Why? Wiki is notoriously unreliable.

Hello, Chris:

It >is<? Then, why did you, yourself, quote Wikipedia, in a later post?

> Basket ball is a minority sport outside the USA. It is hardly played in
> many countries

That's a very dubious claim.

> Football is the national sport of many nations. It is played where every
> there is something kickable. I have not see a country that does not
> play football and it is the normal first choice for kids everywhere.

You've answered three of my other responses, within this thread; but, this
shall be my sole reply.

Suffice to say, basketball and soccer are both quite popular, worldwide.
However, in the U.S.A., "gridiron" type football is king, currently -- and
ice hockey has long been Canada's "national sport."

In these respects, North America may be an "anomaly," as you're previously
stated. Albeit, that doesn't diminish its worthiness, or that of the NFL
or NHL, in any way.

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GodDamnStupidF------ Olympus!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/5d61a010f7604821?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:30 pm
From: John Turco

Eric Stevens wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:19:33 -0500, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
> wrote:

> >During the 1960's, I recall taking apart some of my metal, Japanese-made
> >toy cars, and discovering that their bodies were crafted from soup cans
> >(e.g., "Campbell's")! The painted-on labelling was still intact, on the
> >undersides.
>
> The sheet metal to make steel cans is preprinted before forming. It is
> probable that your toy was made of unused but pre-printed sheet left
> over at the end of a production run.
>
> This is not the case for modern one-piece beer cans which are printed
> after forming.

Hello, Eric:

You may be right! I'm in the U.S.A., and back then, Japanese manufacturers
were still struggling for respect. Some Americans (myself included) merely
assumed that Japan was recycling actual U.S. trash, such as empty food cans.

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Olympus launches micro 4/3 camera
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/106fab96d8be9fe1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 10:30 pm
From: John Turco

John Navas wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:19:47 -0500, John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>
> wrote in <4A3F3EA3.1BAA616@concentric.net>:
>
> >Marty Fremen wrote:
> >>
> >> ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:
> >> . Knowledgeable
> >> > managers have started to criticize Olympus's management for not
> >> > realizing how popular the camera was going to be, so it's going to
> >> > be in very short supply for a very long time,
> >>
> >> That's why they made such a crap website, to limit demand to a level
> >> they could cope with. Never underestimate the Japanese!
> >
> >Quite right! Those inscrutable devils are so damned cunning, it's
> >a mystery why they lost World War II...they must have suffered a
> >collective "brain outage," at Midway? <g>
>
> Not relevant to the silly diatribe that doesn't even apply to the proper
> website, and offensive to boot. How nice.

Hello, John:

It was just an "inside joke," with no disrespect intended. Japan's key
naval defeat, in the Battle of Midway, was partially due to American
Magic...if you know what I mean?

Cordially,
John Turco <jtur@concentric.net>

==============================================================================

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[fnftwo] CREATOR'S CHOICE (June 26th, 2009)

Creator’s Choice – Object, t-shirt - Mandatory

*June 26^th^* will be our last Creator’s Choice until the Fall

This is a plain white t-shirt; you can let your imaginations run amok, but you must not obliterate it please lol. I will be delighted to see how you decorate it; whimsy, funny, glamorous, whatever, just have fun. ~ Hugz, Lynn

Also may be used;

Overall size ~ As is

Any tools you need: brushes, tubes pattern/gradient/texture, word art etc.

Filters: PSP or outside plugins

BOBBI AND DIANE INTRODUCE A NEW CHALLENGE!

A new challenge! CREATOR’S CHOICE! Another wonderful idea of our Mod, Lynn who also created the Galore Challenge! We will dispense with the Friday graphic challenge, and Creator’s Choice will be the replacement. For those of you loving that graphic challenge, we will occasionally throw in a few as surprise challenges.

What is Creator’s Choice? Imagination! YOURS! There are no tutorials with this challenge, you will use your imagination and wonderful creativity to produce and design your own special effects. The result will be your own personal tag.

We all hope this will instill a desire to design your own tags. You’ll also be able to try out many plug ins! LOL. This will be a weekly challenge, on Fridays, starting April 3^rd. If you have any questions regarding the challenge, please contact Lynn, Diane or Bobbi.

[PSP-Snags] BON VENDREDI GROS BISOUSSSSSSS

Papier offert par Tina

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[PSP-Snags] bears on the moon ss t/p

rec.photo.digital - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en

rec.photo.digital@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* How To Detect Snapshooters from Photographers - 14 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/1415c1c3e6a92134?hl=en
* Boycott Panasonic cameras - forced proprietary battery use in firmware - 2
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/79623194af1b296b?hl=en
* Future of the megapixel race - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/c78a5377356e2e48?hl=en
* OT - Michael Jackson's Noses - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d5dcf5265d2b2089?hl=en
* Anything for the Perfect Shot - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/060da06a542937ca?hl=en
* Comparing photos - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/fa51892d4a1ebf21?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How To Detect Snapshooters from Photographers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/1415c1c3e6a92134?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 3:53 pm
From: Ron Hunter

John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:31:19 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
> wrote in <NqSdnaXe86wFQ97XnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>
>> John Navas wrote:
>
>>> Please trim huge quotes to just a relevant portion, not the whole thing.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> Maybe you have the time to do that, or a newsreader that makes it
>> easy, but I have neither.
>
> Your headers say Thunderbird, which can do it easily.
> Would you like some help?
>
>> Skipping to the end is vastly easier, and
>
> For you.
>
>> unless you are one of the 5% of people who are still using dialup for
>> newsgroup access, why bother?
>
> Because it's both wasteful and rude to others, who may be paying for
> metered Internet access, and who may have to manually scroll down to see
> your response -- I'll often not bother, especially when I'm on a small
> screen device.
>
> If you don't care about your audience, why bother posting at all?
>
> Come on, Ron, you're better than that.
>
Actually, I don't care if you, or anyone else reads my posts, likes my
posts, or likes the way I post. I express my opinion, or I give advice,
or provide information. What you chose to do with it is your business.

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:01 pm
From: Robert Spanjaard

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:50:14 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:

>> OTOH, Ron seems to care a lot about the two seconds it takes to quote
>> properly, which suggests he doesn't have much time left...
>>
> Two seconds? I have to select the text to be quoted, copy to the
> clipboard, select 'reply', delete old quoted data, dropdown a menu, and
> select past as quotation. If can do that in two seconds, you are much
> faster than this semi-handicapped 66 year old. More power to you.

No, I can't do _that_ in two seconds, but that would be a very foolish way
to select the text you want to quote.

In any case, you can just delete the quotes you're _not_ replying to from
the 'old quoted data'. And in most newsreaders, you can select the desired
quotes first, press "reply" (or something similar) next, and your reply-
window will open containing just the selected quotes.

If I say I can cross the street in three seconds, that doesn't mean I can
do it on hands and knees.

--
Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:12 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:53:02 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote in <YPidnRicV-JSYt7XnZ2dnUVZ_g9i4p2d@giganews.com>:

>John Navas wrote:

>> If you don't care about your audience, why bother posting at all?
>>
>> Come on, Ron, you're better than that.
>>
>Actually, I don't care if you, or anyone else reads my posts, likes my
>posts, or likes the way I post. ...

You clearly do, or you wouldn't be posting.

I expected better of you, but I guess I was wrong.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:14 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:48:38 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote in <YPidnR-cV-JaY97XnZ2dnUVZ_g9i4p2d@giganews.com>:

>John McWilliams wrote:

What a lame excuse.

>I'm not going to take the
>time to do that editing to save readers 1 or two keystrokes. All it
>takes me to get to the bottom of a long post is one press on my
>multi-button pointing device.

So screw them.

>Hardly an imposition.

This just might quality you for my twit filter.

When you act like a dick, expect to get treated like one.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:15 pm
From: Jürgen Exner

Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> wrote:
>Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>> OTOH, Ron seems to care a lot about the two seconds it takes to quote
>> properly, which suggests he doesn't have much time left...
>>
>Two seconds? I have to select the text to be quoted, copy to the
>clipboard, select 'reply', delete old quoted data, dropdown a menu, and
>select past as quotation.

Well, of course you have any right to deliberately choose an awkward and
inefficient way to accomplish a task. But if you do so then complaining
about how inconvenient and time consuming it is sounds kind of silly.

jue

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:15 pm
From: John Navas

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:50:14 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote in <YPidnR6cV-K6Yt7XnZ2dnUVZ_g9i4p2d@giganews.com>:

>Robert Spanjaard wrote:

>> OTOH, Ron seems to care a lot about the two seconds it takes to quote
>> properly, which suggests he doesn't have much time left...
>>
>Two seconds? I have to select the text to be quoted, copy to the
>clipboard, select 'reply', delete old quoted data, dropdown a menu, and
>select past as quotation. If can do that in two seconds, you are much
>faster than this semi-handicapped 66 year old.
>More power to you.

That's not how it's done.
You're either ignorant or deliberately obtuse.
Robert is correct that it only takes a second or two.

--
Best regards,
John (Panasonic DMC-FZ28, and several others)

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:21 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 15:50:14 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

> Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:05 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>>> Is it too late to try, Ron?
>>> Her is what trimming looks like. It takes 10 times as long, and results
>>> in little information for the person who reads the post. What were we
>>> talking about? Sigh.
>>
>> ASAAR, are you sure about his age? Considering his childish behaviour,
>> he still has a lot of growing up to do.
>>
>> OTOH, Ron seems to care a lot about the two seconds it takes to quote
>> properly, which suggests he doesn't have much time left...
>>
> Two seconds? I have to select the text to be quoted, copy to the
> clipboard, select 'reply', delete old quoted data, dropdown a menu, and
> select past as quotation. If can do that in two seconds, you are much
> faster than this semi-handicapped 66 year old.
> More power to you.

Why do it that way?

In Thunderbird, hit the "Reply" button; highlight the text you are
going to remove - delete. (or add some snide note that you have snipped
the superfluous text.)

All you should have left is the text your response is aimed at - add
your response below that and post.

No copy & paste is required.

...and old fartdom is also one of my problems so don't use that excuse. :-)

--
Regards,

Savageduck

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:23 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 15:53:02 -0700, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> said:

> John Navas wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:31:19 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
>> wrote in <NqSdnaXe86wFQ97XnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> John Navas wrote:
>>
>>>> Please trim huge quotes to just a relevant portion, not the whole thing.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>> Maybe you have the time to do that, or a newsreader that makes it
>>> easy, but I have neither.
>>
>> Your headers say Thunderbird, which can do it easily. Would you like
>> some help?
>>
>>> Skipping to the end is vastly easier, and
>>
>> For you.
>>
>>> unless you are one of the 5% of people who are still using dialup for
>>> newsgroup access, why bother?
>>
>> Because it's both wasteful and rude to others, who may be paying for
>> metered Internet access, and who may have to manually scroll down to see
>> your response -- I'll often not bother, especially when I'm on a small
>> screen device.
>> If you don't care about your audience, why bother posting at all?
>>
>> Come on, Ron, you're better than that.
>>
> Actually, I don't care if you, or anyone else reads my posts, likes my
> posts, or likes the way I post. I express my opinion, or I give
> advice, or provide information. What you chose to do with it is your
> business.

Then why waste your time posting anything?

You might as well stand on a street corner and rail at the World.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:59 pm
From: Kennedy McEwen

In article <NqSdnaXe86wFQ97XnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> writes
>John Navas wrote:
>> Please trim huge quotes to just a relevant portion, not the whole
>>thing.
>> Thanks.
>>
>John,
> Maybe you have the time to do that, or a newsreader that makes it
>easy, but I have neither.

If you have the time to read it then you have the time to trim it.
If you have neither then you don't have the time to reply to it, so why
troll?
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 5:13 pm
From: Kennedy McEwen

In article <YPidnR-cV-JaY97XnZ2dnUVZ_g9i4p2d@giganews.com>, Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> writes
>>
>Chances are they have more time that I do.

Dear Ron,
YOU are an arrogant CUNT!

Regards,

PS. Sorry I don't have enough time to explain my conclusion.
No doubt you have enough time to debate it. ;-)

PPS. I apologise to regular readers for my misuse of Anglo-Saxon
language - a CUNT is a very useful and pleasurable piece of human
anatomy, whilst Ron certainly is not!
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 5:49 pm
From: John McWilliams

Ron Hunter wrote:
> Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:05 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>>> Is it too late to try, Ron?
>>> Her is what trimming looks like. It takes 10 times as long, and results
>>> in little information for the person who reads the post. What were we
>>> talking about? Sigh.
>>
>> ASAAR, are you sure about his age? Considering his childish behaviour,
>> he still has a lot of growing up to do.
>>
>> OTOH, Ron seems to care a lot about the two seconds it takes to quote
>> properly, which suggests he doesn't have much time left...
>>
> Two seconds? I have to select the text to be quoted, copy to the
> clipboard, select 'reply', delete old quoted data, dropdown a menu, and
> select past as quotation. If can do that in two seconds, you are much
> faster than this semi-handicapped 66 year old.
> More power to you.

I gave you ten seconds, being generous with a time allocation. Now that
I see that was about on, given you use an extraordinarily inefficient
way to operate. Others have commented on how to do so.

Again, etiquette......

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 7:08 pm
From: ASAAR

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:05 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:

>> Is it too late to try, Ron?
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> Her is what trimming looks like. It takes 10 times as long, and results
> in little information for the person who reads the post. What were we
> talking about? Sigh.

Intentionally incompetent trimming just makes you look silly.
You've made quite a number of one or two line replies after quoting
hundreds of lines in past posts. Usually only a couple of lines or
a paragraph needed quoting. We both know full well that the bulk of
your quoted lines have not been necessary. To supply newsgroup
newcomers with all of the missing context they'd need (according to
your logic) you'd have to quote the entire previous thread. You're
just stubborn, Ron. But that's not so uncommon in these parts, and
I may have a touch of it myself. :)

BTW, although I'm not familiar with your newsreader (Thunderbird),
I'll bet that I could use TB and usually do all of the selective
quoting and trimming in a couple of seconds. Anyone with your
computer experience could also do that. As they say, where there's
a will there's a way.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 7:21 pm
From: JustaTroll

ASAAR wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:05 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:
>
> >> Is it too late to try, Ron?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Her is what trimming looks like. It takes 10 times as long, and results
> > in little information for the person who reads the post. What were we
> > talking about? Sigh.
>
> Intentionally incompetent trimming just makes you look silly.
> You've made quite a number of one or two line replies after quoting
> hundreds of lines in past posts. Usually only a couple of lines or
> a paragraph needed quoting. We both know full well that the bulk of
> your quoted lines have not been necessary. To supply newsgroup
> newcomers with all of the missing context they'd need (according to
> your logic) you'd have to quote the entire previous thread. You're
> just stubborn, Ron. But that's not so uncommon in these parts, and
> I may have a touch of it myself. :)
>

Many posters may have a touch of stubbornness... Not always a "bad"
thing.

> BTW, although I'm not familiar with your newsreader (Thunderbird),
> I'll bet that I could use TB and usually do all of the selective
> quoting and trimming in a couple of seconds. Anyone with your
> computer experience could also do that. As they say, where there's
> a will there's a way.
>

Or a kill-file... I get the impression he doesn't care one way or the
other.

- JT
wishes more posters would trim replies

"The pendulum of the mind oscillates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 7:26 pm
From: ASAAR

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:48:38 -0500, "Mean old" Ron Hunter wrote:

>> We're talking etiquette for one thing. The ten seconds it takes you will
>> save each of your thousands- or dozens- of readers a second or two.
>> That's being thoughtful. Courteous. Whatever.
>
> Chances are they have more time that I do. I'm not going to take the
> time to do that editing to save readers 1 or two keystrokes. All it
> takes me to get to the bottom of a long post is one press on my
> multi-button pointing device. Hardly an imposition.

That only shows how inconsiderate and self centered you are. You
*incorrectly* assume that anyone reading your replies also assumes
that your replies are always contained at the very bottom of your
posts. Very often replies from others are scattered between long
quotes, and immediately skipping to the bottom guarantees that most
of the new text contained in the reply will never be seen. As I
hinted in my previous reply, trimming the unnecessary quotes can be
quick and easy if you're bright enough to figure out how to do it,
no matter how limited your newsreader is. Mine may be easier, as it
can quote only the text that's highlighted, but that's not the
point. It's much quicker than scrolling down through hundreds of
lines to make sure that any pertinent parts of your replies aren't
missed, which is the burden you impose on those that are patient
enough to read your replies. Had you been royalty, I suppose your
adopted motto would be "Let them eat cake."

> "Let them eat cake" is the traditional but incorrect translation
> of the French phrase "qu'ils mangent de la brioche." Brioche is
> actually a type of egg bread enriched with a large proportion
> of butter, rather than any type of dessert or confection.
>
> The quote, as attributed to Marie Antoinette, was claimed to have
> been uttered during one of the famines that occurred in France
> during the reign of her husband Louis XVI. Upon being alerted
> that the people were suffering due to widespread bread shortages,
> she is said to have replied, "Then let them eat brioche." This type
> of callousness on the part of the monarchy is often referred to when
> studying the possible factors that may have led to the French Revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boycott Panasonic cameras - forced proprietary battery use in firmware
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/79623194af1b296b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 3:59 pm
From: "Charles E Hardwidge"

"John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:n0v745tla3bk5t39m1ljoj60h4hog90eoq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:02:15 GMT, "Charles E Hardwidge"
> <boing@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> <HtS0m.47640$OO7.55@text.news.virginmedia.com>:
>
>>"John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>>news:otp745l4ml75trj4lu8ac9uc0sg4taffrl@4ax.com...
>>
>>> You ought to at least take an in depth look at HD Photo before putting
>>> it down.
>>
>>John, I just put forward Brad's case for 12 bit JPEG. I've explained that
>>position and am happy with it. I'm not running anything down or shutting a
>>door on *you* putting the case for HD Photo. So, you might try a more
>>constructive approach and show less attitude. Thanks.
>
> That sure looked like your opinion to me. Still does.
> But I'll take your word for it. Sorry.

It happens. People's perspective can be negatively influenced by an
accumulation of rigid opinions and land grabbing. Grandstanding politicians
on TV and internet trolls don't help that.

The issues of 8 bit JPEG, intermediate, and fragmented raw standards are an
issue that needs grasping. My personal experience at the low end (Canon
A590) while I get into photography hasn't been great. Mostly, I'm just
focused on the issues with cruddy JPEG implementations (the A590's sucks), a
properly profiled DNG hack, and getting my Lightroom presets knocked into
shape. While I get into a position where I can justify a better camera the
issues Brad raises about standards is interesting. I just put it on the
table to contribute to the topic and see what people made of it.

--
Charles E Hardwidge

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 4:17 pm
From: "Charles E Hardwidge"

"John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:v4v745lnio0bgcf324ekjc2c9v01i0prnu@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:21:09 GMT, "Charles E Hardwidge"
> <boing@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> <pLS0m.47655$OO7.1084@text.news.virginmedia.com>:
>
>>Personally, I like Brad's 12-bit JPEG scheme.
>
> So it was your opinion.
>
>>HD Photo is intriguing but I went through the OpenGL and Direct 3D thing
>>years ago so am a bit circumspect of the politics.
>
> Those things have nothing to do with HD Photo.

Brad's article caught my eye and I thought it was worth mentioning. While
specifications and implementations are separate to the politics it's
something that does have a bearing on issues. OpenGL versus Direct 3D and,
later, VC-1 versus H.264, and JPEG are similar in this regard.

In an ideal world one would only consider the silicon, software, and
ecosystem requirements. There's different domains from cheap embedded
systems to usage scenarios, to worldwide software infrastructure to
consider. Standards and ownership are different things but still a
significant factor in outcomes. People need to be aware of this but I'd
agree they also need to know where the line is between the two.

Earlier experiences in other technical areas have repeated further down the
line and I'm not going to chuck that experience away. Also, I've been around
business and politics long enough to spot when technical and political
issues are being mangled to win arguments or grab market share.

--
Charles E Hardwidge

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 26 2009 12:14 am
From: Alfred Molon

In article <250620090953333025%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam says...

> actually the resolution increase would be much less than 'substantial',

Substantial because right now 2/3 of the colour information are just
guessed. But do we need to reopen this discussion?

> the sensor will have more noise and at least right now, more difficult
> to manufacture.

You can't make such blanket statements. That depends of course on the
implementation.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 6:24 pm
From: nospam

In article <MPG.24ae937c1a3cd1bc98c044@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > actually the resolution increase would be much less than 'substantial',
>
> Substantial because right now 2/3 of the colour information are just
> guessed.

it's not guessed, it's precisely calculated, and human vision is not
that sensitive to colour resolution so you can't see the difference
anyway.

> But do we need to reopen this discussion?

> > the sensor will have more noise and at least right now, more difficult
> > to manufacture.
>
> You can't make such blanket statements. That depends of course on the
> implementation.

it does depend on the implementation, but absent a breakthrough in
physics or manufacturing, it remains true. there's no free lunch.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Michael Jackson's Noses
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d5dcf5265d2b2089?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 7:46 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Not sure how true this is.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Thursday, June 25, 2009
By Charles H. Stevens,
Practical Press

Jackson Bequeaths Noses in surprise Will Statement

* It kills more people in the U.S. each year
than breast cancer, lung cancer and HIV/AIDS
combined. The condition is called sudden cardiac
arrest (SCA) - and it only takes minutes to
claim a person's life.*

"Sudden cardiac arrest is a real national tragedy,
It's most often due to a sudden, very rapid heart
rhythm. The heart goes so fast a person dies right
away unless they're shocked out of it with a
defibrillator."

While it hasn't been confirmed what caused Michael
Jackson to go into full cardiac arrest - the Los
Angeles Times reported that Jackson was not breathing
when paramedics arrived at his Los Angeles home around
12:30 p.m. and sources with the Los Angeles Fire
Department said he had no pulse either.

The paramedics tried to resuscitate Jackson and
took him to UCLA Medical Center where he was later
pronounced dead.

Brian Oxman, Jackson's spokesperson and longtime
family friend, hinted that the singer may have had
trouble with prescription drugs.

Oxman told CNN that the singer was taking drugs to
deal with injuries, such as a broken back and broken
leg, which were getting in the way of his concert
rehearsals.

Jackson was slated to kick-off a 50 concert tour
starting in London July 13th.

An autopsy and final nose job will likely take place Friday.

Top legal firm Dewey Screwem and Howe Co-Owner, Lloyd
Dewey, was reached for comment. "Due to confidentiality,
I can only read the following statement which Mr. Jackson
hand wrote, before his death, with the explicit
understanding that it would be read after his demise."

Michael Jackson's Statement:
"First, I love you all. Since you are hearing this,
I must have died. I'm not really dead, you know. All
you wonderful people who love me so much will keep me
alive in your memory. I'm the best that there ever was,
or will be. I'm better than Elvis, or the Beatles. And
because I love you all, I'm bequeathing in my will, one
of my noses to each of the boys who stayed at Neverland. Of
course,

Macaulay was my favorite. So much fun, and I
just adored those sparkly blue eyes. He was so good to
me. I just love him so much. I've left instructions in
my will, that I'm gong to have another nose job, after
my death, and God help them if they don't get it right,
this time. I've been so disappointed over the years.
Still, they can't help it, they are just doctors after all.
But, I love

all you, my adoring fans."

Dewey had to choke back tears, as he read the last
statement from the pop star. Jackson had aparently
been close to his four small boys, who had spent
two weeks at Neverland while Dewey and his wife were
on their second honeymoon. After drying his tears
and blowing his nose, Dewey remarked, aparently
unscripted, "Gawd, that man sure loved my boys."

Policy | About Bay Area News Group | Add to My Yahoo!

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 7:55 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0oadncRsfuRbu97XnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@giganews.com...
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:F76dnQ_jBvdwSt_XnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> "John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>>> news:90g545lnt2mhmfvjprho390lrm2mtjnqro@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:51:38 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote in <z4idnWeYSOB0At_XnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4a4207c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>> You know that in most browsers you can resize the fonts on websites,
>>>>>> right?
>>>>> No. I have no idea how to do that.
>>>> Ctrl key and + key
>>>> Ctrl key and - key
>>>>
>>>>> But, I would also have to be able to
>>>>> change the contrast, to get them to like print BLACK on WHITE (for
>>>>> example)
>>>>> For some stupid reason, many sites print dark gray on light gray, or
>>>>> gray on
>>>>> a black background. (in order to waste gallons of my ink when I try to
>>>>> print
>>>>> anything out)
>>>> Select and Copy the text to the Clipboard; Paste into Notepad; Print.
>>>>
>>>>> I have Windows VISTA. Trying to do anything on Windows Vista
>>>>> is kind of like pulling teeth with a pair of long nosed pliers.
>>>> Not so hard if you use the Help system.
>>>>
>>>>> The only way
>>>>> I can disable programs (for example) is to change the names on their
>>>>> folders, so my machine can't find them on start up and I can get to
>>>>> actually
>>>>> use my machine for something within a half hour or so from when I turn
>>>>> it
>>>>> on......
>>>> Just Uninstall them in Control Panel.
>>>>
>>> It says, "You are not authorized to do that." and, I can't seem to find
>>> out how to authorize myself.......I am able to change the name of the
>>> folders, however, so I have done that to all the programs I want to
>>> disable.....Now, my machine can't find them...:^) I changed the name of
>>> "the Weather Channel" to "the Heather Channel" (for example) so I don't
>>> get that stupid pop-up anymore. And there's a good example of a useless
>>> program that Microsoft incorporates into their Windows Program
>>> list.......It has no purpose whatsoever, other than to pay back some guy
>>> for some favor he must have done for Bill Gates or somebody..........
>>
>> I also stopped Google Desktop from working by changing it's name to
>> "Deskhop". - The problem is, after I'm dead, when some teenager tries to
>> use my machine, he/she won't have the slightest idea why it doesn't work
>> right! Teenagers don't know how to read anymore, and that will be their
>> undoing......I will be laughing my ass off. (assuming there's an
>> afterlife)
> Actually, the teen will probably understand, immediately, that someone
> didn't know how to use the computer before, and will log in as
> administrator, uninstall the offending programs, and install his own, and
> live happily ever after.

And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:05 pm
From: Savageduck

On 2009-06-25 19:55:33 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> said:

>
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:0oadncRsfuRbu97XnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@giganews.com...
>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>> "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:F76dnQ_jBvdwSt_XnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> "John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:90g545lnt2mhmfvjprho390lrm2mtjnqro@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:51:38 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote in <z4idnWeYSOB0At_XnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4a4207c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>>> You know that in most browsers you can resize the fonts on websites,
>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>> No. I have no idea how to do that.
>>>>> Ctrl key and + key
>>>>> Ctrl key and - key
>>>>>
>>>>>> But, I would also have to be able to
>>>>>> change the contrast, to get them to like print BLACK on WHITE (for example)
>>>>>> For some stupid reason, many sites print dark gray on light gray, or gray on
>>>>>> a black background. (in order to waste gallons of my ink when I try to print
>>>>>> anything out)
>>>>> Select and Copy the text to the Clipboard; Paste into Notepad; Print.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have Windows VISTA. Trying to do anything on Windows Vista
>>>>>> is kind of like pulling teeth with a pair of long nosed pliers.
>>>>> Not so hard if you use the Help system.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only way
>>>>>> I can disable programs (for example) is to change the names on their
>>>>>> folders, so my machine can't find them on start up and I can get to actually
>>>>>> use my machine for something within a half hour or so from when I turn it
>>>>>> on......
>>>>> Just Uninstall them in Control Panel.
>>>>>
>>>> It says, "You are not authorized to do that." and, I can't seem to find
>>>> out how to authorize myself.......I am able to change the name of the
>>>> folders, however, so I have done that to all the programs I want to
>>>> disable.....Now, my machine can't find them...:^) I changed the name of
>>>> "the Weather Channel" to "the Heather Channel" (for example) so I don't
>>>> get that stupid pop-up anymore. And there's a good example of a
>>>> useless program that Microsoft incorporates into their Windows Program
>>>> list.......It has no purpose whatsoever, other than to pay back some
>>>> guy for some favor he must have done for Bill Gates or
>>>> somebody..........
>>>
>>> I also stopped Google Desktop from working by changing it's name to
>>> "Deskhop". - The problem is, after I'm dead, when some teenager tries
>>> to use my machine, he/she won't have the slightest idea why it doesn't
>>> work right! Teenagers don't know how to read anymore, and that will be
>>> their undoing......I will be laughing my ass off. (assuming there's an
>>> afterlife)
>> Actually, the teen will probably understand, immediately, that someone
>> didn't know how to use the computer before, and will log in as
>> administrator, uninstall the offending programs, and install his own,
>> and live happily ever after.
>
> And how, exactly does one "log in as administrator"?

http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Dummies-Special-Bundle-Computers/dp/0470121033/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1245985425&sr=8-1

Regards,

Savageduck

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:07 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0oadncVsfuT3u97XnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@giganews.com...
> Bill Graham wrote:
>> "John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>> news:90g545lnt2mhmfvjprho390lrm2mtjnqro@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:51:38 -0700, "Bill Graham" <weg9@comcast.net>
>>> wrote in <z4idnWeYSOB0At_XnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>
>>>> "Bob Larter" <bobbylarter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4a4207c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>> You know that in most browsers you can resize the fonts on websites,
>>>>> right?
>>>> No. I have no idea how to do that.
>>> Ctrl key and + key
>>> Ctrl key and - key
>>>
>>>> But, I would also have to be able to
>>>> change the contrast, to get them to like print BLACK on WHITE (for
>>>> example)
>>>> For some stupid reason, many sites print dark gray on light gray, or
>>>> gray on
>>>> a black background. (in order to waste gallons of my ink when I try to
>>>> print
>>>> anything out)
>>> Select and Copy the text to the Clipboard; Paste into Notepad; Print.
>>>
>>>> I have Windows VISTA. Trying to do anything on Windows Vista
>>>> is kind of like pulling teeth with a pair of long nosed pliers.
>>> Not so hard if you use the Help system.
>>>
>>>> The only way
>>>> I can disable programs (for example) is to change the names on their
>>>> folders, so my machine can't find them on start up and I can get to
>>>> actually
>>>> use my machine for something within a half hour or so from when I turn
>>>> it
>>>> on......
>>> Just Uninstall them in Control Panel.
>>>
>> It says, "You are not authorized to do that." and, I can't seem to find
>> out how to authorize myself.......I am able to change the name of the
>> folders, however, so I have done that to all the programs I want to
>> disable.....Now, my machine can't find them...:^) I changed the name of
>> "the Weather Channel" to "the Heather Channel" (for example) so I don't
>> get that stupid pop-up anymore. And there's a good example of a useless
>> program that Microsoft incorporates into their Windows Program
>> list.......It has no purpose whatsoever, other than to pay back some guy
>> for some favor he must have done for Bill Gates or somebody..........
> Bill,
> Sometimes I understand just why Microsoft thinks all users are stupid.
> If you don't know why you aren't authorized to do that, then you shouldn't
> do that.
> I suggest informing yourself about just how your OS works would be a good
> first step, and they you could make changes without messing up the whole
> system. In the case of working with a computer, there is no substitute
> for an informed user. Become one, or stop complaining about Microsoft
> protecting you from yourself.

Uh huh.....I'm still trying to figure out how to, "Log in as administrator".
When I start the machine up, it doesn't give me that option, so I figure out
how to do what I have to do the hard way. What makes it hard, is the
terrible illogic of the idiots who wrote the software for my machine. No
reasonable human being could possibly think in such a convoluted fashion. It
must be that Microsoft intentionally hires people who can't read or write
any known language. I know for sure, (for example) that the folks who write
the error messages don't speak the same language as the ones who write the
help files, because the two vocabularies are completely different. This has
to be intentional, because chance dictates that some of them at least, would
speak the same language......But alas, it is not to be.......But hey! I
understand your attitude.....You probably like the new popular music,
too......I will never really understand you, but then, There's a 50-50
chance that that's my fault. After all, I was raised on people like Tarsky,
and I am getting very old.......

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:14 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0oadncVsfuT3u97XnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@giganews.com.
..
Become one, or stop complaining about
> Microsoft protecting you from yourself.

And just how does getting rid of that "Weather Channel" folder keep me
protected from myself? I think you have become a shill for these guys,
that's what I think.......I wonder how many other folders in that "Windows
Program Files" section are as stupid and useless as that one is? Well, the
only way I can find out is to disable them one by one and see what happens.
My "Windows VISTA" book certainly isn't going to tell me.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:37 pm
From: "Bill Graham"

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 25 2009 8:16 pm
From: PatM

On Jun 25, 12:30 pm, "Miguel" <responderalgr...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Hello:
>
> A time ago I did this photo that I have tried a little to improve:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3660332190
>
> Now with a different person but in the same place and in the same row but of
> different angle I did the following photo:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmyv/3660332206
>
> In the first photo I tried to show to the person and the aspects around, and
> in the second photo. I tried to show to the person at the moment of the
> exposition.
>
> Thanks to all for your comments about photography.
>
> --
> Miguel M. Yalánhttp://mmyv.com

I think your 2nd link is wrong.

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