rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* P&S V DSLR debate here - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d9743709abcda6dc?hl=en
* sigma buys foveon - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/b45194b6b402b71a?hl=en
* Catching The Fall Colors With The D3!! - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/523627fd51caad60?hl=en
* rec.photo.digital - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d7789e423256930a?hl=en
* my application for iPhone: Model Pose - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/037b35960e06e31a?hl=en
* Pro Wildlife Photographers Prefer FX Over DX!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/eb534bd5da6c2966?hl=en
* Sometimes DSLRs achieve comical/pathetic results - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/e8507563c32175c6?hl=en
* Keeping An Open Ear Out For Obama!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/831184ccc9af1358?hl=en
* Is this the future? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/005781276d8e357a?hl=en
* My DLSR is a P&S - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/38fd4912061b2683?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: P&S V DSLR debate here
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d9743709abcda6dc?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:14 am
From: Gavin O'Donnel
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:55:57 GMT, Steve <steve@example.com> wrote:
>A DSLR is flexable enough to be able to shoot with fill
>in flash at it's X-Sync speed. You mean your precious P&S can't do
>that?
All of the ones I use don't have a crippling X-Sync speed limitation and can use
fill-flash at any shutter speed. That's the point I was making about your
limited and crippled DSLR not being able to use its built-in flash in
full-sunlight. The properties of a strobing focal-plane flash (high-speed-sync
flash) as a fill-flash is just as useless due to the inverse-square law and the
properties of a focal-plane shutter.
(Can a mouse's brain comprehend this? No. :-) )
> And using a flash that strobes is only a problem with the
>pathetically weak P&S flashes.
I don't believe it. Just when I thought he couldn't make an even bigger fool of
himself, he goes and does it again.
I should let someone else who wants to play with this flopping-around
mouse-with-its-head-in-a-trap explain to the mouse why it is now begging to be
put out of its misery, with a simple explanation of how a pulsing/strobing
focal-plane flash is not even needed for a P&S camera. Some of the most
inexperienced camera owners out there can easily put this mouse's head under
their boot and step down on it now.
<INTELLIGENT-BOOT>
<PRESSURE>
<TROLL-STEVE'S-MOUSE-HEAD>
<CRUNCH>
LOL
What have we learned today kiddies? ....
1. Steve doesn't know how P&S cameras work.
2. Steve doesn't know how DSLRs work.
3. Steve doesn't know how flash & X-sync works.
4. Steve doesn't know how focal-plane shutter's work.
5. Steve doesn't understand basic photography in daylight.
6. Steve DOES know how to be a know-nothing virtual-photographer resident-troll.
Okay world. I'll let you have this one as an encore freebie. I said I wasn't
going to use him to entertain you anymore, but this one is just so over-the-top
for a virtual-photographer troll I couldn't pass it up. I can't believe that one
of them is even more stupid than an SMS-resident-troll, but I found it!
LOL
==============================================================================
TOPIC: sigma buys foveon
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/b45194b6b402b71a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:02 am
From: "J. Clarke"
Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <gfe7mt01p2i@news6.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke says...
>
>> Uh huh. So why are Foveon sensors so lousy in tests?
>
> The Foveon one is just one possible implementation and in fact not a
> particularly good one. An Asian manufacturer (Samsung?) is
> researching
> on a different approach: three semi-transparent stacked layers of
> photo- sensitive material. They are not using silicon as far as I
> know.
And maybe one day they'll make it work.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:54 am
From: SMS
J. Clarke wrote:
> Alfred Molon wrote:
>> In article <gfe7mt01p2i@news6.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke says...
>>
>>> Uh huh. So why are Foveon sensors so lousy in tests?
>> The Foveon one is just one possible implementation and in fact not a
>> particularly good one. An Asian manufacturer (Samsung?) is
>> researching
>> on a different approach: three semi-transparent stacked layers of
>> photo- sensitive material. They are not using silicon as far as I
>> know.
>
> And maybe one day they'll make it work.
At this juncture it's an answer to a question that nobody asked.
I suppose that if they could make it cheap enough then the P&S
manufacturers could use them to increase perceived resolution slightly
without decreasing the pixel size even more. The P&S camera megapixel
race seems to have leveled off at 10 to 12 megapixels because they've
reached the point where users aren't going to accept further degradation
in terms of noise or low-light performance with even smaller pixels. For
D-SLRs, we're not at the resolutions where noise is a problem on the
full frame CMOS sensors, so there's no need for a three layer sensor.
The world is moving to full frame D-SLRs for amateurs to professionals,
and to cheap P&S cameras for convenience. The area in between isn't
selling well, the wide-range zoom P&S and the high end P&S because
D-SLRs have become so inexpensive, and the results are so much better.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:23 am
From: samuel johnson
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:54:09 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>J. Clarke wrote:
>> Alfred Molon wrote:
>>> In article <gfe7mt01p2i@news6.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke says...
>>>
>>>> Uh huh. So why are Foveon sensors so lousy in tests?
>>> The Foveon one is just one possible implementation and in fact not a
>>> particularly good one. An Asian manufacturer (Samsung?) is
>>> researching
>>> on a different approach: three semi-transparent stacked layers of
>>> photo- sensitive material. They are not using silicon as far as I
>>> know.
>>
>> And maybe one day they'll make it work.
>
>At this juncture it's an answer to a question that nobody asked.
>
>I suppose that if they could make it cheap enough then the P&S
>manufacturers could use them to increase perceived resolution slightly
>without decreasing the pixel size even more. The P&S camera megapixel
>race seems to have leveled off at 10 to 12 megapixels because they've
>reached the point where users aren't going to accept further degradation
>in terms of noise or low-light performance with even smaller pixels. For
>D-SLRs, we're not at the resolutions where noise is a problem on the
>full frame CMOS sensors, so there's no need for a three layer sensor.
So what you are saying is that, again, the P&S camera is going to lead the way
and then all the people that want to live with last-century's archaic and
crippling focal-plane shutter design and low-light crippled OVFs will eventually
adopt or try to adopt all the ground-breaking technology that is being put into
P&S cameras today. I see.
>
>The world is moving to full frame D-SLRs for amateurs to professionals,
>and to cheap P&S cameras for convenience. The area in between isn't
>selling well, the wide-range zoom P&S and the high end P&S because
>D-SLRs have become so inexpensive, and the results are so much better.
Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it and
continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a virtual-photographer
newsgroup-troll and a fool.
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and models
of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your photography
gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far surpass any
range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be made for
larger format cameras.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than any
DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used with
high-quality tel-extenders, which by the way, do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Only DSLRs suffer from that problem due to the manner in which
their tele-converters work. They can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than any
DSLR and its glass in existence. Some excellent fish-eye adapters can be added
to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic-aberration nor
edge-softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this allows you to
seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm equivalent focal-length
up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own lens.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than larger
sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic Range vs. an
APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2861257547_9a7ceaf3a1_o.jpg
4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent) sensors
used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much smaller.
Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures and are more
easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for DSLRs. This also
allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than DSLR glass which is
only good for one aperture setting per lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S
glass can out-resolve even the best DSLR glass ever made. After all is said and
done, you will spend 1/4th to 1/50th the price that you would have to in order
to get comparable performance in a DSLR camera. When you buy a DSLR you are
investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips, external
flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc. etc. The
outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial DSLR body
purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their banks.
5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera plus one
small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing just a couple
pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would require over 10 to 20
pounds of DSLR body and lenses. You can carry the whole P&S kit in one roomy
pocket of a wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy
backpack. You also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.
6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer, you
will not be barred from using your camera at public events, stage-performances,
and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots, you won't so easily
alert all those within a block around, from the obnoxious noise that your DSLR
is making, that you are capturing anyone's images. For the more dedicated
wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not endanger your life when
photographing potentially dangerous animals by alerting them to your presence.
7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you may
capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where any
evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance. Without the
need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware into remote
areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time allotted for bringing
back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for unattended time-lapse
photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you may capture those unusual
or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a rare slime-mold's propagation,
that you happened to find in a mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest
laptop or other time-lapse hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that
CHDK brings to the creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to
list them all here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )
8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast subject
motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the need of
artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone. Nor will
their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane shutter
distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when photographed with all
DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions example-image link in #10.)
9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including shutter-speeds
of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_High-Speed_Shutter_%26_Flash-Sync without
the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter flash-units that
must strobe for the full duration of the shutter's curtain to pass over the
frame. The other downside to those kinds of flash units, is that the
light-output is greatly reduced the faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed
used that is faster than your camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the
flash output. Not so when using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash
is recorded no matter the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK
capable cameras where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the
lightning-fast single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is
1/10,000 of a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a
second, then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also
don't require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may
be used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that can
compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html
10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground, 90-degrees
from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously loud slapping
mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily damaged, expensive
repair costs, etc.
11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments, or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street, you're not
worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot (fewer missed
shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete while you do, and
not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos that day from having
gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous photographer you're no
longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of unneeded glass, allowing you to
carry more of the important supplies, like food and water, allowing you to trek
much further than you've ever been able to travel before with your old D/SLR
bricks.
12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available allow for the deep DOF
required for excellent macro-photography, WITHOUT the need of any image
destroying, subject irritating, natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the
planet can compare in the quality of available-light macro photography that can
be accomplished with nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera.
13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo audio
recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature where a
still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong. E.g. recording
the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living field-mice. With your
P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't miss that once-in-a-lifetime
chance to record some unexpected event, like the passage of a bright meteor in
the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion, or any other newsworthy event. Imagine
the gaping hole in our history of the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras
there at the time. The mystery of how it exploded would have never been solved.
Or the amateur 8mm film of the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready
P&S camera being with you all the time might capture something that will be a
valuable part of human history one day.
14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your final
image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your composition by
trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With the ability to
overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area alerts (and dozens of
other important shooting data) directly on your electronic viewfinder display
you are also not going to guess if your exposure might be right this time. Nor
do you have to remove your eye from the view of your subject to check some
external LCD histogram display, ruining your chances of getting that perfect
shot when it happens.
15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and sensors
that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as light-levels
drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in total darkness by
using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other multi-purpose cameras are
capable of taking still-frame and videos of nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as
well. Shooting videos and still-frames of nocturnal animals in the total-dark,
without disturbing their natural behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away
with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is not only possible, it's been done, many times, by
myself. (An interesting and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly
stomped to death by an irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash
come from.)
16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly 100%
silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither scaring it away
nor changing their natural behavior with your existence. Nor, as previously
mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your direction. You are recording
nature as it is, and should be, not some artificial human-changed distortion of
reality and nature.
17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the greatest
degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence, with its
inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving subject will
EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A leaf-shutter or
electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will capture your moving
subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S photography will no longer lead a
biologist nor other scientist down another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.
18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all the
popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those agonizingly
slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the shot is recorded.
In the hands of an experienced photographer that will always rely on prefocusing
their camera, there is no hit & miss auto-focusing that happens on all
auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This allows you to take advantage of the
faster shutter response times of P&S cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that
if you really want to get every shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in
any camera.
19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately relay
the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate preview of
what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3 seconds or
1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the crisp sharp outlines
of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100% accurately depicted in
your viewfinder before you even record the shot. What you see in a P&S camera is
truly what you get. You won't have to guess in advance at what shutter speed to
use to obtain those artistic effects or those scientifically accurate nature
studies that you require or that your client requires. When testing CHDK P&S
cameras that could have shutter speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was
amazed that I could half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a
Dremel-Drill's 30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real
time, without ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when
lowering shutter speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls,
instantly seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never
realize what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.
20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use of its
own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender on the
front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would with a DSLR.
Framing and the included background is relative to the subject at the time and
has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens in use. Your f/ratio
(which determines your depth-of-field), is a computation of focal-length divided
by aperture diameter. Increase the focal-length and you make your DOF shallower.
No different than opening up the aperture to accomplish the same. The two
methods are identically related where DOF is concerned.
21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs with
just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up on ISO25
and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S camera can't
go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S camera can have
larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in existence. The time
when you really need a fast lens to prevent camera-shake that gets amplified at
those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs you can take perfectly fine hand-held
images at super-zoom settings. Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures
at long focal lengths require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They
need high ISOs, you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are
some excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.
22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any way
determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of around
$100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer today. IF they
have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award winning photograph with
a cardboard Brownie Box camera made a century ago. If you can't take excellent
photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able to get good photos on a DSLR
either. Never blame your inability to obtain a good photograph on the kind of
camera that you own. Those who claim they NEED a DSLR are only fooling
themselves and all others. These are the same people that buy a new camera every
year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only had the right camera, a better camera,
better lenses, faster lenses, then I will be a great photographer!" Camera
company's love these people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will
make their photography better, because they never were a good photographer to
begin with. The irony is that by them thinking that they only need to throw
money at the problem, they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real
problem is. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why these
self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras instantly reveal to
them their piss-poor photography skills.
23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera gear.
They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile and tell
them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the look on their
face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that lost money, and a
sadness just courses through every fiber of their being. Wondering why they
can't get photographs as good after they spent all that time and money. Get good
on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun experience.
24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth mentioning
the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that is instantly
ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more award-winning
photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home, collecting dust,
and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack or camera bag, hoping
that you'll lug it around again some day.
25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you. That's
like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS STUPID AND I
DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only take it out when
needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with all your photos. And
should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're not out $20,000. They are
inexpensive to replace.
There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more than
enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras are just
better, all around. No doubt about it.
The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in just
one short phrase:
"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains a
foolish thing."
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 10:35 am
From: nospam
In article <MPG.2384f4ab2e73a04298bf12@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > maybe. there are a number of hurdles to overcome. split the pixel in
> > three and noise goes up. nikon has a patent with dichroic mirrors that
> > doesn't look like it would be cost effective to manufacture.
>
> Obviously splitting pixels is nonsense. You have to find a way to
> capture all incoming photons. With the current Bayer sensors you are
> throwing away 2/3 of all incoming photons. What a waste.
foveon splits a single pixel into three layers, and each layer has a
lower well depth than if the pixel was a single entity. also, the
conversion from sensor space to rgb adds noise (foveon doesn't actually
sense true rgb). there's no free lunch.
> > > Since pixels can't get smaller, they have to get
> > > better and collect more information. Having the full RGB information at
> > > each pixel is a huge advantage. It boosts the effective resolution by
> > > about 50%.
> >
> > it's an advantage but not as much as you suggest, and the lack of
> > demosaicing is actually fairly minor.
>
> It makes indeed a big difference. But please let's not start again this
> equivalent resolution debate, because this has been discussed to death
> already.
it actually makes very little difference. keep in mind that *other*
factors contribute to much of the difference seen, such as the heavy
sharpening applied in the sigma raw converter, even when set to 0.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Catching The Fall Colors With The D3!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/523627fd51caad60?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:53 am
From: George Kerby
On 11/11/08 9:44 PM, in article q1kkh4hjbhek9t2hbhmorfbn4f6n4tphoq@4ax.com,
"HarveyCorman" <hcorman@spammenot.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:17:20 -0500, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:07:12 -0600, George Kerby
>> <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/11/08 12:15 PM, in article
>>> -a2dnSGdnb6YUITUnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@supernews.com, "Rita Berkowitz"
>>> <ritaberk2008@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> George Kerby wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hurt! I guess I can never do as well as 'Rita' in that
>>>>> department...
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://ritaberk.cedhost.com/Republican_Dance.htm>
>>>>>
>>>>> "She" has such a 'remarkable talent', does "she" not?
>>>>
>>>> That's a kick-ass sweet shot, isn't it George? Remy made that just for you
>>>> since you are so special.
>>>>
>>>>> What do you think 'she' feeds her canine to produce that unusual scat?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, you're just jealous that your turd cutter isn't as tight as Remy's.
>>>> After all, you did wear yours out with those unnatural sex acts.
>>>>
>>> No, you are the one that is unnatural, 'Rita'. Believe me. You are it!
>>>
>>> Again, I'm reporting you to the ASPCA for what you force down that dog. That
>>> shit is unlike anything I have ever seen.
>>
>> The above proves that everyone - even you - has a talent. Yours seems
>> to be to be able to spot authentic dog shit.
>
> When is Rita going to start posting snuff photos just for the attention? It
> seems to be getting that desperate, is it not?
>
> I never bother to go look at its photography. I learned long ago that it is a
> total waste of bandwidth. But judging by the comments its easy to see how low
> it's sunk for attention.
>
> As they say, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with
> (bull)shit."
>
In this case, dogshit.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:57 am
From: George Kerby
On 11/11/08 10:56 PM, in article a3okh49i93ho0n53qs3nbkseuukundmssn@4ax.com,
"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:44:40 -0600, HarveyCorman
> <hcorman@spammenot.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:17:20 -0500, tony cooper
>> <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:07:12 -0600, George Kerby
>>> <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/08 12:15 PM, in article
>>>> -a2dnSGdnb6YUITUnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@supernews.com, "Rita Berkowitz"
>>>> <ritaberk2008@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> George Kerby wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm hurt! I guess I can never do as well as 'Rita' in that
>>>>>> department...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://ritaberk.cedhost.com/Republican_Dance.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "She" has such a 'remarkable talent', does "she" not?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a kick-ass sweet shot, isn't it George? Remy made that just for
>>>>> you
>>>>> since you are so special.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think 'she' feeds her canine to produce that unusual scat?
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, you're just jealous that your turd cutter isn't as tight as Remy's.
>>>>> After all, you did wear yours out with those unnatural sex acts.
>>>>>
>>>> No, you are the one that is unnatural, 'Rita'. Believe me. You are it!
>>>>
>>>> Again, I'm reporting you to the ASPCA for what you force down that dog.
>>>> That
>>>> shit is unlike anything I have ever seen.
>>>
>>> The above proves that everyone - even you - has a talent. Yours seems
>>> to be to be able to spot authentic dog shit.
>>
>> When is Rita going to start posting snuff photos just for the attention? It
>> seems to be getting that desperate, is it not?
>>
>> I never bother to go look at its photography. I learned long ago that it is a
>> total waste of bandwidth. But judging by the comments its easy to see how low
>> it's sunk for attention.
>>
>> As they say, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with
>> (bull)shit."
>
> What is the difference between wasting bandwidth by posting a link to
> an image and wasting bandwidth bitching about them? For every quart
> of bandwidth Rita wastes, six quarts are wasted by people complaining
> about it.
>
> Rita should continue to post links. It would be nice if the images
> were better (the last few have been pretty crappy), but it at least
> gives people like you something to do: bitch.
>
> I am sorry, by the way, if I've misidentified the unit of measure that
> describes bandwidth. I've never seen it on the shelves to know how it
> comes.
You might as well change your name to "Toni" and head for Baltimore to cling
to your 'Pleasure Pal's' outstreatched appendage. I've never seen such
sucking up before...
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:00 am
From: George Kerby
On 11/11/08 8:17 PM, in article vuekh4ds7u46jicnvuvv9ac2b12dtrpjqp@4ax.com,
"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:07:12 -0600, George Kerby
> <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/08 12:15 PM, in article
>> -a2dnSGdnb6YUITUnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@supernews.com, "Rita Berkowitz"
>> <ritaberk2008@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> George Kerby wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hurt! I guess I can never do as well as 'Rita' in that
>>>> department...
>>>>
>>>> <http://ritaberk.cedhost.com/Republican_Dance.htm>
>>>>
>>>> "She" has such a 'remarkable talent', does "she" not?
>>>
>>> That's a kick-ass sweet shot, isn't it George? Remy made that just for you
>>> since you are so special.
>>>
>>>> What do you think 'she' feeds her canine to produce that unusual scat?
>>>
>>> Oh, you're just jealous that your turd cutter isn't as tight as Remy's.
>>> After all, you did wear yours out with those unnatural sex acts.
>>>
>> No, you are the one that is unnatural, 'Rita'. Believe me. You are it!
>>
>> Again, I'm reporting you to the ASPCA for what you force down that dog. That
>> shit is unlike anything I have ever seen.
>
> The above proves that everyone - even you - has a talent. Yours seems
> to be to be able to spot authentic dog shit.
>
Toni, *anyone* can look at that and see that there is something just *wrong*
there. But you will hurl yourself over the rail for your 'special friend',
will you not?
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 7:32 am
From: savvo
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.equipment.35mm]
On 2008-11-12, Vern <hcorman@spammenot.org> wrote:
> I never bother to go look at its photography. I learned long ago that it is a
> total waste of bandwidth. But judging by the comments its easy to see how low
> it's sunk for attention.
Touche, Vern. We all know how much you hate attention and love to conserve
bandwidth.
--
savvo orig. invib. man
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:37 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:57:27 -0600, George Kerby
<ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rita should continue to post links. It would be nice if the images
>> were better (the last few have been pretty crappy), but it at least
>> gives people like you something to do: bitch.
>>
>You might as well change your name to "Toni" and head for Baltimore to cling
>to your 'Pleasure Pal's' outstreatched appendage. I've never seen such
>sucking up before...
So you like watching?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 10:21 am
From: George Kerby
On 11/12/08 10:37 AM, in article 2e1mh4ps8hmbeol5ruvmst2nlb3hoplgb2@4ax.com,
"tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:57:27 -0600, George Kerby
> <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Rita should continue to post links. It would be nice if the images
>>> were better (the last few have been pretty crappy), but it at least
>>> gives people like you something to do: bitch.
>>>
>> You might as well change your name to "Toni" and head for Baltimore to cling
>> to your 'Pleasure Pal's' outstreatched appendage. I've never seen such
>> sucking up before...
>
> So you like watching?
Name's "Kerby", not "Chance", Toni. You like "doin it" though, doncha?!?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/d7789e423256930a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:02 am
From: BobG
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:01:55 GMT, Steve <steve@example.com> wrote:
>
>On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:55:51 -0600, FreelanceFrankie
><frankie@noaddress.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:31:26 -0800 (PST), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 11, 7:17 am, "Fred" <fredap...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Has this newsgroup been renamed rec.photo.dslrbigotsslampanandscans
>>>> recently?
>>>
>>>Well, "pan and scan" is actually a disgusting, pre-HD TV version of a
>>>P&S where (like a P&S) a sawed-off runt of a movie or TV is shown so
>>>it will fit on an old 4:3 TV set. The people who prefer this kind of
>>>art mutilation are probably the same as those who prefer P&S's to
>>>DSLRs...
>>
>>Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
>>bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it and
>>continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a virtual-photographer
>>newsgroup-troll and a fool.
>>
>>
>>1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
>>existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
>>wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and models
>>of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your photography
>>gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far surpass any
>>range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be made for
>>larger format cameras.
>
>You're so much fun to prove wrong. And yet again, you prove you know
>nothing about cameras. Only DSLRs in general give you seamless zoom
>range. Most P&S cameras have discreet steps that the zoom must stop
>at. So for the whole range that the zoom lens covers, the camera may
>have only 6 or 7 actual focal lengths it can ever be at. You push the
>zoom lever and it doesn't stop when you let go. It only stops when it
>gets to one of it's preset zoom levels.
>
>If you want a seamless zoom range then get a DSLR.
What you say is true for some of the very low-end P&S cameras, but is not true
for all of them. Take for example the many P&S cameras that have manual or
fly-by-wire zoom-ring adjustments on them. Seamless zooms.
Another good example are the CHDK capable P&S cameras. The super-zoom models
have 129 discreet zoom stops programmed into the firmware that silently moves
the lens elements using a precision ultra-sonic motor. For all intents and
purposes this is pretty much a "seamless" range. I'd challenge anyone with a
manually zoomed lens to try to divvy-up their zoom adjustment for their lens
into 129 discreet steps, manually or with any other feature on their camera.The
best part of all is that each and every one of those focal-length zoom steps of
a CHDK P&S camera can be recalled instantly at any time to duplicate that zoom
setting again, perfectly. Either manually or with easy to write programmable
scripts. Impossible to accomplish on any manually adjusted zoom lens (except for
the two extreme ends of its zoom range). For the stop-motion animator, the
scientist, the panorama photographer, documenting collections and media, for
anyone using their camera for any advanced photography techniques a reproducible
zoom-setting is highly valuable. At any time you can go back and recreate the
exact camera settings used before. You're not just limited to duplicating the
zoom setting with perfect precision. You can also recall and duplicate any
intermediate ISOs (you're not limited to the standard ISO steps, all CHDK
cameras have a seamless ISO range too), shutter-speeds, apertures, zoom setting
... right down to and including the focus setting that was used before,
duplicating the focus setting with 1mm precision. You can't do that on any DSLR
nor any other cameras nor other camera lenses on earth.
For the scientist and researcher, there's yet another benefit to CHDK P&S
cameras. You're not limited to the 1/3EV steps for shutter speeds. You may
choose any shutter speed from 65 seconds to 1/40,000 second in 1/100,000 second
increments. There are two methods of inputting new shutter speeds, the standard
1/3EV steps or precise decimal fractions.
Thanks for raising this issue. It gave me a chance to point out many more
reasons why some P&S cameras are better than any DSLR that has ever existed or
will probably ever exist. DSLRs are for point and shoot amateurs who don't have
these exacting needs for precision--as do many professional who do require these
high levels of precision and have switched over to top-quality P&S cameras to
meet those needs today.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:40 am
From: "Roy G"
"BobG" <bobg@privateisp.org> wrote in message
news:30tlh491vr70ib36sd2d28cka5i69l1cm8@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:01:55 GMT, Steve <steve@example.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:55:51 -0600, FreelanceFrankie
>><frankie@noaddress.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:31:26 -0800 (PST), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Nov 11, 7:17 am, "Fred" <fredap...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Has this newsgroup been renamed rec.photo.dslrbigotsslampanandscans
>>>>> recently?
>>>>
>>>>Well, "pan and scan" is actually a disgusting, pre-HD TV version of a
>>>>P&S where (like a P&S) a sawed-off runt of a movie or TV is shown so
>>>>it will fit on an old 4:3 TV set. The people who prefer this kind of
>>>>art mutilation are probably the same as those who prefer P&S's to
>>>>DSLRs...
>>>
>>>Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
>>>bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it
>>>and
>>>continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a
>>>virtual-photographer
>>>newsgroup-troll and a fool.
>>>
>>>
>>>1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
>>>existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
>>>wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and
>>>models
>>>of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your
>>>photography
>>>gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far
>>>surpass any
>>>range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be
>>>made for
>>>larger format cameras.
>>
>>You're so much fun to prove wrong. And yet again, you prove you know
>>nothing about cameras. Only DSLRs in general give you seamless zoom
>>range. Most P&S cameras have discreet steps that the zoom must stop
>>at. So for the whole range that the zoom lens covers, the camera may
>>have only 6 or 7 actual focal lengths it can ever be at. You push the
>>zoom lever and it doesn't stop when you let go. It only stops when it
>>gets to one of it's preset zoom levels.
>>
>>If you want a seamless zoom range then get a DSLR.
>
> What you say is true for some of the very low-end P&S cameras, but is not
> true
> for all of them. Take for example the many P&S cameras that have manual or
> fly-by-wire zoom-ring adjustments on them. Seamless zooms.
>
> Another good example are the CHDK capable P&S cameras. The super-zoom
> models
> have 129 discreet zoom stops programmed into the firmware that silently
> moves
> the lens elements using a precision ultra-sonic motor. For all intents and
> purposes this is pretty much a "seamless" range. I'd challenge anyone with
> a
> manually zoomed lens to try to divvy-up their zoom adjustment for their
> lens
> into 129 discreet steps, manually or with any other feature on their
> camera.The
> best part of all is that each and every one of those focal-length zoom
> steps of
> a CHDK P&S camera can be recalled instantly at any time to duplicate that
> zoom
> setting again, perfectly. Either manually or with easy to write
> programmable
> scripts. Impossible to accomplish on any manually adjusted zoom lens
> (except for
> the two extreme ends of its zoom range). For the stop-motion animator, the
> scientist, the panorama photographer, documenting collections and media,
> for
> anyone using their camera for any advanced photography techniques a
> reproducible
> zoom-setting is highly valuable. At any time you can go back and recreate
> the
> exact camera settings used before. You're not just limited to duplicating
> the
> zoom setting with perfect precision. You can also recall and duplicate any
> intermediate ISOs (you're not limited to the standard ISO steps, all CHDK
> cameras have a seamless ISO range too), shutter-speeds, apertures, zoom
> setting
> ... right down to and including the focus setting that was used before,
> duplicating the focus setting with 1mm precision. You can't do that on any
> DSLR
> nor any other cameras nor other camera lenses on earth.
>
> For the scientist and researcher, there's yet another benefit to CHDK P&S
> cameras. You're not limited to the 1/3EV steps for shutter speeds. You may
> choose any shutter speed from 65 seconds to 1/40,000 second in 1/100,000
> second
> increments. There are two methods of inputting new shutter speeds, the
> standard
> 1/3EV steps or precise decimal fractions.
>
> Thanks for raising this issue. It gave me a chance to point out many more
> reasons why some P&S cameras are better than any DSLR that has ever
> existed or
> will probably ever exist. DSLRs are for point and shoot amateurs who don't
> have
> these exacting needs for precision--as do many professional who do require
> these
> high levels of precision and have switched over to top-quality P&S cameras
> to
> meet those needs today.
>
YAWN
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 11:04 am
From: "Deep Reset"
"DarnelBuccanon" <dbucannon@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:538kh4du9om47oko01s56u3jqa0dd2blv4@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:09:32 -0500, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@Freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>Pete D wrote:
>>
>>> We are all standing by to be truly amazed dude.
>>
>>Why feed it?
>
> Feed what?
>
> While waiting for an answer, the rest of us that like to stay on topic put
> our
> time to good use and learn a thing or two by reading this ... maybe you
> can too
> if you actually read AND comprehend it.
>
>
> 1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
<Boring repetitive drivel elided>
WARNING: People of a sensitive nature may wish to look away now, the
following post contains language of an adult nature.
[slow hand clap] Congratulations, you've discover cut and paste.
Now please, engage your other neuron and fuck off somewhere else and drag
the standards down there, you're really getting on people's tits, you
tedious, infantile fuckwit.
Deep.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: my application for iPhone: Model Pose
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/037b35960e06e31a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:05 am
From: George Kerby
SPAM ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On 11/12/08 1:41 AM, in article
0139f253-0c70-4704-9053-76a96aeb1b10@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com, "magico"
<mamingge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My new application released: Model Pose for iPhone
> http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=295449605&mt
> =8
>
> Being a photographer or a model, you maybe can't remember so many
> model's professional poses. By using Model Pose, you can discover 230
> classical professional poses including standing, sitting, knelling and
> reclining categories.
>
> By Model Pose, you can download the last model photos in internet
> and add to your favorited folders which is divided into the previous
> four poses categories and each pose item. You can export all the
> photos to iphone/ipod Touch's album and synchronize with your PC at
> any moment.
>
> The photos in the favorited folders can be quickly indexed by poses
> and are showed in latern slide mode.
>
> It's your photography handbook and tool.
>
> Features:
> ============
> 1. Total 4 pose category: standing, sitting, knelling and reclining.
> 2. Total 230 classical professional poses.
> 3. Favorite and organize internet into local photo library.
> 4. View internet model pose photo library.
> 5. View local organized pose photo at any time.
> 6. Internet photo library and feed up to date.
> 7. Favorite, organize and review your pose photo easily, only need 2
> steps.
> 8. Export photos to your device's album.
> 9. Synchronize your data with iTunes, iPhone, Google Picasa, etc.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pro Wildlife Photographers Prefer FX Over DX!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/eb534bd5da6c2966?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:07 am
From: George Kerby
On 11/12/08 8:35 AM, in article
kuGdnfZNpq9NdIfUnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@comcast.com, "John McWilliams"
<jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rita Berkowitz wrote:
>> John McWilliams wrote:
>>
>>>>> The whole rationale for 35mm and digital is that its hand holdable.
>>>>> none of that lugging around a tripod.
>>>>
>>>> It is! It just seems that a lot of parrots and other pretenders
>>>> simply don't experience it in real life. I have no problem at all
>>>> hand holding the
>>>> 500/4 and D3 at slow shutter speed.
>>>
>>> Poast yer proof, pest!
>>
>> NO! Keep wondering, Son.
>
> I wonder not. I don't think anyone wonders much; although you do have a
> couple of fans who may pipe up.
>
> It's up to you to show proof, not us, dodger boy.
Only if he can get "Toni" off him first!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sometimes DSLRs achieve comical/pathetic results
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/e8507563c32175c6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 8:14 am
From: Art Grantsburg
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:44:09 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>
>> My favorite example of clueless snapshooters is stadium events where
>> the lighting is dim and you see hundreds of camera flashes trying to
>> illuminate the field from hundreds of feet away.
>
>You see this at museums, aquariums, etc., too, where they tell people
>that flash photography is prohibited. Most of the people don't know how
>to turn off the flash. It was really annoying to watch the Olympics on
>TV and see all those clueless people using their flashes, it was
>distracting. They should just ban P&S cameras from these venues.
You have that bass-ackward, as usual. It's not the cameras that are bad, it's
the people that own the cameras that are stupid. How much do you want to bet
that most of them with the flash going off were using DSLRs. Some of the most
stupid people I have ever met in life buy DSLRs because they think only an
expensive camera will do everything for them correctly, automatically. People
just like you who can't even focus a camera manually or pan to follow one of the
slowest soaring birds in the world. (See SMS's "I took photos of condors once"
thread.)
The correct solution would be to ban all stupid people from those venues, all
venues. Then people like you would be kept from annoying the more knowledgeable
at all times no matter what you do. Win win all around.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Keeping An Open Ear Out For Obama!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/831184ccc9af1358?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:04 am
From: glenzabr@nospam.xmission.com (GMAN)
In article <49166b8d$0$33590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, rfischer@sonic.net wrote:
> <"mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH ME"@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You haven't offered any real option. Vague handwaving doesn't count.
>>> The deficit is about $450,000,000,000. That's almost equal to the
>>> entire military budget. You can't eliminate interest payments on the
>>> debt, you can't eliminate Social Security,
>>
>>oh but you CAN eliminate Social Security
>
>Nope.
>
>>... and mark my word,
>>while it won't actually be eliminated, it WILL be cut, and cut
>>dramatically.
>
>And why should I care about your opinion?
>
>> We don't yet know how, but we know why: Social
>>Security in its present form requires an exponentially expanding
>>population, at the same expansion rate, forever.
>
>It doesn't. That's just more right-wing SS disinformation.
>
SS is the ultimate fucked up Pyramid Scheme!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is this the future?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/005781276d8e357a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:09 am
From: Galen MacNamera
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:51:45 -0600, "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote:
>People are pretty heavily
>into instant gratification these days and seem far more interesting
>in snap shot photos than quality, hence they generally don't
>habitate these hallowed halls. Second, in the continuun between
>absolute nubes and Nobel Laureate professional photographers,
Odd that you should mention this. I was recently reading an older (yr. 2000)
special-issue of "Scientific American" devoted to meteorology. In there were
some very interesting photos of this last decade's discovery of "sprites",
"elfs", "blue-jets", and other rare electrical discharges that appear above
storm systems in the upper atmosphere.
Many of the photos of these phenomena that are published in that issue must have
a resolution of nothing more than 320x240, if that. The individual pixels in the
printed images easily visible. Anyone that wanted to could count them. They're
probably more like 240x120 pixels in resolution. It appears as if it was the
only way to obtain those images of such rare, brief, and low-luminance
phenomena.
Huh. How about that. Nobel-Laureates publishing images of that low quality and
using those images for doing their Nobel-Prize worthy research.
Those silly amateurs.
Repeat after me:
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
CONTENT WILL TRUMP QUALITY *_EVERY_* TIME.
You people really are amazingly stupid, you know that don't you? This only
proves something I've always known since I was born. Stupid people are too
stupid to realize just how stupid they really are.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: My DLSR is a P&S
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/38fd4912061b2683?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:37 am
From: Rich
On Nov 11, 5:04 pm, Alfred Molon <alfred_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <d6cbd703-3cb8-4f7d-a03d-
> 4262b83e7...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Rich says...
>
> > > The lens is 24-120.
>
> > Very limited. Back to awkward screw-on tele-converters for greater
> > reach. Trust me, I owned the C-8080, a great P&S for what it was.
>
> Limited? That's 5x. If you care about quality, avoid the superzooms.
Absolutely, which means the only way to get long reach and quality is
with a DSLR.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:39 am
From: Rich
On Nov 11, 7:08 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Rich wrote:
> > On Nov 11, 2:21 pm, Alfred Molon <alfred_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> In article <57bf769e-90ac-45be-852c-
> >> 6e187ca4f...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, Rich says...
>
> >>> How about if your P&S is set for a 300mm equivalent or you're shooting
> >>> action?
> >> The lens is 24-120.
>
> > Very limited. Back to awkward screw-on tele-converters for greater
> > reach. Trust me, I owned the C-8080, a great P&S for what it was.
>
> Those kludgy tele-converters are even worse in terms of distortion and
> CA than the super-zoom P&S cameras.
>
> I can't wait to see the Canon SX1 IS with its CMOS sensor. Will there
> finally be a super-zoom P&S that can give excellent quality results?
No, it is simply too expensive to produce a superzoom that could
render the quality of more modest DSLR zoom ranges. Plus, when these
P&Ss get bigger sensors, the zoom lens gets larger and larger, making
the camera larger than the smallest DSLRs...
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:49 am
From: SMS
Rich wrote:
> No, it is simply too expensive to produce a superzoom that could
> render the quality of more modest DSLR zoom ranges. Plus, when these
> P&Ss get bigger sensors, the zoom lens gets larger and larger, making
> the camera larger than the smallest DSLRs...
Yes, that's the root of the problem with the super-zoom P&S cameras. If
they make the sensor large enough to solve the noise and dynamic range
issues, the lens becomes so large that you've got a camera that is as
large and heavy as a D-SLR yet still suffers from the other drawbacks of
a P&S such as the slow auto-focus, and plus it's not any cheaper. Plus
you're stuck with the compromise of the wide range zoom lens with its
distortion and CA.
Fortunately, increasing D-SLR sales indicate that more and more people
understand the advantages of D-SLRs.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 9:58 am
From: AlexanderB
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:37:55 -0800 (PST), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 11, 5:04 pm, Alfred Molon <alfred_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> In article <d6cbd703-3cb8-4f7d-a03d-
>> 4262b83e7...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Rich says...
>>
>> > > The lens is 24-120.
>>
>> > Very limited. Back to awkward screw-on tele-converters for greater
>> > reach. Trust me, I owned the C-8080, a great P&S for what it was.
>>
>> Limited? That's 5x. If you care about quality, avoid the superzooms.
>
>Absolutely, which means the only way to get long reach and quality is
>with a DSLR.
Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it and
continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a virtual-photographer
newsgroup-troll and a fool.
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and models
of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your photography
gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far surpass any
range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be made for
larger format cameras.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than any
DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used with
high-quality tel-extenders, which by the way, do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Only DSLRs suffer from that problem due to the manner in which
their tele-converters work. They can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than any
DSLR and its glass in existence. Some excellent fish-eye adapters can be added
to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic-aberration nor
edge-softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this allows you to
seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm equivalent focal-length
up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own lens.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than larger
sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic Range vs. an
APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2861257547_9a7ceaf3a1_o.jpg
4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent) sensors
used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much smaller.
Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures and are more
easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for DSLRs. This also
allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than DSLR glass which is
only good for one aperture setting per lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S
glass can out-resolve even the best DSLR glass ever made. After all is said and
done, you will spend 1/4th to 1/50th the price that you would have to in order
to get comparable performance in a DSLR camera. When you buy a DSLR you are
investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips, external
flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc. etc. The
outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial DSLR body
purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their banks.
5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera plus one
small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing just a couple
pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would require over 10 to 20
pounds of DSLR body and lenses. You can carry the whole P&S kit in one roomy
pocket of a wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy
backpack. You also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.
6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer, you
will not be barred from using your camera at public events, stage-performances,
and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots, you won't so easily
alert all those within a block around, from the obnoxious noise that your DSLR
is making, that you are capturing anyone's images. For the more dedicated
wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not endanger your life when
photographing potentially dangerous animals by alerting them to your presence.
7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you may
capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where any
evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance. Without the
need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware into remote
areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time allotted for bringing
back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for unattended time-lapse
photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you may capture those unusual
or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a rare slime-mold's propagation,
that you happened to find in a mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest
laptop or other time-lapse hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that
CHDK brings to the creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to
list them all here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )
8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast subject
motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the need of
artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone. Nor will
their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane shutter
distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when photographed with all
DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions example-image link in #10.)
9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including shutter-speeds
of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_High-Speed_Shutter_%26_Flash-Sync without
the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter flash-units that
must strobe for the full duration of the shutter's curtain to pass over the
frame. The other downside to those kinds of flash units, is that the
light-output is greatly reduced the faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed
used that is faster than your camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the
flash output. Not so when using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash
is recorded no matter the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK
capable cameras where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the
lightning-fast single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is
1/10,000 of a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a
second, then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also
don't require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may
be used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that can
compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html
10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground, 90-degrees
from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously loud slapping
mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily damaged, expensive
repair costs, etc.
11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments, or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street, you're not
worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot (fewer missed
shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete while you do, and
not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos that day from having
gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous photographer you're no
longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of unneeded glass, allowing you to
carry more of the important supplies, like food and water, allowing you to trek
much further than you've ever been able to travel before with your old D/SLR
bricks.
12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available allow for the deep DOF
required for excellent macro-photography, WITHOUT the need of any image
destroying, subject irritating, natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the
planet can compare in the quality of available-light macro photography that can
be accomplished with nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera.
13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo audio
recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature where a
still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong. E.g. recording
the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living field-mice. With your
P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't miss that once-in-a-lifetime
chance to record some unexpected event, like the passage of a bright meteor in
the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion, or any other newsworthy event. Imagine
the gaping hole in our history of the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras
there at the time. The mystery of how it exploded would have never been solved.
Or the amateur 8mm film of the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready
P&S camera being with you all the time might capture something that will be a
valuable part of human history one day.
14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your final
image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your composition by
trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With the ability to
overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area alerts (and dozens of
other important shooting data) directly on your electronic viewfinder display
you are also not going to guess if your exposure might be right this time. Nor
do you have to remove your eye from the view of your subject to check some
external LCD histogram display, ruining your chances of getting that perfect
shot when it happens.
15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and sensors
that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as light-levels
drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in total darkness by
using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other multi-purpose cameras are
capable of taking still-frame and videos of nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as
well. Shooting videos and still-frames of nocturnal animals in the total-dark,
without disturbing their natural behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away
with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is not only possible, it's been done, many times, by
myself. (An interesting and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly
stomped to death by an irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash
come from.)
16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly 100%
silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither scaring it away
nor changing their natural behavior with your existence. Nor, as previously
mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your direction. You are recording
nature as it is, and should be, not some artificial human-changed distortion of
reality and nature.
17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the greatest
degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence, with its
inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving subject will
EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A leaf-shutter or
electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will capture your moving
subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S photography will no longer lead a
biologist nor other scientist down another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.
18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all the
popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those agonizingly
slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the shot is recorded.
In the hands of an experienced photographer that will always rely on prefocusing
their camera, there is no hit & miss auto-focusing that happens on all
auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This allows you to take advantage of the
faster shutter response times of P&S cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that
if you really want to get every shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in
any camera.
19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately relay
the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate preview of
what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3 seconds or
1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the crisp sharp outlines
of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100% accurately depicted in
your viewfinder before you even record the shot. What you see in a P&S camera is
truly what you get. You won't have to guess in advance at what shutter speed to
use to obtain those artistic effects or those scientifically accurate nature
studies that you require or that your client requires. When testing CHDK P&S
cameras that could have shutter speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was
amazed that I could half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a
Dremel-Drill's 30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real
time, without ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when
lowering shutter speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls,
instantly seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never
realize what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.
20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use of its
own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender on the
front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would with a DSLR.
Framing and the included background is relative to the subject at the time and
has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens in use. Your f/ratio
(which determines your depth-of-field), is a computation of focal-length divided
by aperture diameter. Increase the focal-length and you make your DOF shallower.
No different than opening up the aperture to accomplish the same. The two
methods are identically related where DOF is concerned.
21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs with
just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up on ISO25
and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S camera can't
go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S camera can have
larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in existence. The time
when you really need a fast lens to prevent camera-shake that gets amplified at
those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs you can take perfectly fine hand-held
images at super-zoom settings. Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures
at long focal lengths require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They
need high ISOs, you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are
some excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.
22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any way
determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of around
$100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer today. IF they
have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award winning photograph with
a cardboard Brownie Box camera made a century ago. If you can't take excellent
photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able to get good photos on a DSLR
either. Never blame your inability to obtain a good photograph on the kind of
camera that you own. Those who claim they NEED a DSLR are only fooling
themselves and all others. These are the same people that buy a new camera every
year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only had the right camera, a better camera,
better lenses, faster lenses, then I will be a great photographer!" Camera
company's love these people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will
make their photography better, because they never were a good photographer to
begin with. The irony is that by them thinking that they only need to throw
money at the problem, they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real
problem is. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why these
self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras instantly reveal to
them their piss-poor photography skills.
23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera gear.
They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile and tell
them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the look on their
face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that lost money, and a
sadness just courses through every fiber of their being. Wondering why they
can't get photographs as good after they spent all that time and money. Get good
on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun experience.
24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth mentioning
the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that is instantly
ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more award-winning
photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home, collecting dust,
and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack or camera bag, hoping
that you'll lug it around again some day.
25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you. That's
like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS STUPID AND I
DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only take it out when
needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with all your photos. And
should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're not out $20,000. They are
inexpensive to replace.
There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more than
enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras are just
better, all around. No doubt about it.
The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in just
one short phrase:
"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains a
foolish thing."
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 10:00 am
From: tony-atkinson
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:39:55 -0800 (PST), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 11, 7:08 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Rich wrote:
>> > On Nov 11, 2:21 pm, Alfred Molon <alfred_mo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> In article <57bf769e-90ac-45be-852c-
>> >> 6e187ca4f...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, Rich says...
>>
>> >>> How about if your P&S is set for a 300mm equivalent or you're shooting
>> >>> action?
>> >> The lens is 24-120.
>>
>> > Very limited. Back to awkward screw-on tele-converters for greater
>> > reach. Trust me, I owned the C-8080, a great P&S for what it was.
>>
>> Those kludgy tele-converters are even worse in terms of distortion and
>> CA than the super-zoom P&S cameras.
>>
>> I can't wait to see the Canon SX1 IS with its CMOS sensor. Will there
>> finally be a super-zoom P&S that can give excellent quality results?
>
>No, it is simply too expensive to produce a superzoom that could
>render the quality of more modest DSLR zoom ranges. Plus, when these
>P&Ss get bigger sensors, the zoom lens gets larger and larger, making
>the camera larger than the smallest DSLRs...
Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it and
continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a virtual-photographer
newsgroup-troll and a fool.
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and models
of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your photography
gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far surpass any
range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be made for
larger format cameras.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than any
DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used with
high-quality tel-extenders, which by the way, do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Only DSLRs suffer from that problem due to the manner in which
their tele-converters work. They can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than any
DSLR and its glass in existence. Some excellent fish-eye adapters can be added
to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic-aberration nor
edge-softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this allows you to
seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm equivalent focal-length
up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own lens.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than larger
sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic Range vs. an
APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2861257547_9a7ceaf3a1_o.jpg
4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent) sensors
used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much smaller.
Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures and are more
easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for DSLRs. This also
allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than DSLR glass which is
only good for one aperture setting per lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S
glass can out-resolve even the best DSLR glass ever made. After all is said and
done, you will spend 1/4th to 1/50th the price that you would have to in order
to get comparable performance in a DSLR camera. When you buy a DSLR you are
investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips, external
flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc. etc. The
outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial DSLR body
purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their banks.
5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera plus one
small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing just a couple
pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would require over 10 to 20
pounds of DSLR body and lenses. You can carry the whole P&S kit in one roomy
pocket of a wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy
backpack. You also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.
6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer, you
will not be barred from using your camera at public events, stage-performances,
and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots, you won't so easily
alert all those within a block around, from the obnoxious noise that your DSLR
is making, that you are capturing anyone's images. For the more dedicated
wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not endanger your life when
photographing potentially dangerous animals by alerting them to your presence.
7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you may
capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where any
evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance. Without the
need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware into remote
areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time allotted for bringing
back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for unattended time-lapse
photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you may capture those unusual
or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a rare slime-mold's propagation,
that you happened to find in a mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest
laptop or other time-lapse hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that
CHDK brings to the creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to
list them all here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )
8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast subject
motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the need of
artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone. Nor will
their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane shutter
distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when photographed with all
DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions example-image link in #10.)
9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including shutter-speeds
of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_High-Speed_Shutter_%26_Flash-Sync without
the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter flash-units that
must strobe for the full duration of the shutter's curtain to pass over the
frame. The other downside to those kinds of flash units, is that the
light-output is greatly reduced the faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed
used that is faster than your camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the
flash output. Not so when using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash
is recorded no matter the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK
capable cameras where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the
lightning-fast single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is
1/10,000 of a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a
second, then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also
don't require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may
be used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that can
compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html
10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground, 90-degrees
from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously loud slapping
mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily damaged, expensive
repair costs, etc.
11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments, or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street, you're not
worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot (fewer missed
shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete while you do, and
not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos that day from having
gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous photographer you're no
longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of unneeded glass, allowing you to
carry more of the important supplies, like food and water, allowing you to trek
much further than you've ever been able to travel before with your old D/SLR
bricks.
12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available allow for the deep DOF
required for excellent macro-photography, WITHOUT the need of any image
destroying, subject irritating, natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the
planet can compare in the quality of available-light macro photography that can
be accomplished with nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera.
13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo audio
recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature where a
still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong. E.g. recording
the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living field-mice. With your
P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't miss that once-in-a-lifetime
chance to record some unexpected event, like the passage of a bright meteor in
the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion, or any other newsworthy event. Imagine
the gaping hole in our history of the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras
there at the time. The mystery of how it exploded would have never been solved.
Or the amateur 8mm film of the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready
P&S camera being with you all the time might capture something that will be a
valuable part of human history one day.
14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your final
image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your composition by
trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With the ability to
overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area alerts (and dozens of
other important shooting data) directly on your electronic viewfinder display
you are also not going to guess if your exposure might be right this time. Nor
do you have to remove your eye from the view of your subject to check some
external LCD histogram display, ruining your chances of getting that perfect
shot when it happens.
15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and sensors
that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as light-levels
drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in total darkness by
using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other multi-purpose cameras are
capable of taking still-frame and videos of nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as
well. Shooting videos and still-frames of nocturnal animals in the total-dark,
without disturbing their natural behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away
with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is not only possible, it's been done, many times, by
myself. (An interesting and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly
stomped to death by an irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash
come from.)
16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly 100%
silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither scaring it away
nor changing their natural behavior with your existence. Nor, as previously
mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your direction. You are recording
nature as it is, and should be, not some artificial human-changed distortion of
reality and nature.
17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the greatest
degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence, with its
inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving subject will
EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A leaf-shutter or
electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will capture your moving
subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S photography will no longer lead a
biologist nor other scientist down another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.
18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all the
popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those agonizingly
slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the shot is recorded.
In the hands of an experienced photographer that will always rely on prefocusing
their camera, there is no hit & miss auto-focusing that happens on all
auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This allows you to take advantage of the
faster shutter response times of P&S cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that
if you really want to get every shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in
any camera.
19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately relay
the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate preview of
what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3 seconds or
1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the crisp sharp outlines
of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100% accurately depicted in
your viewfinder before you even record the shot. What you see in a P&S camera is
truly what you get. You won't have to guess in advance at what shutter speed to
use to obtain those artistic effects or those scientifically accurate nature
studies that you require or that your client requires. When testing CHDK P&S
cameras that could have shutter speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was
amazed that I could half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a
Dremel-Drill's 30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real
time, without ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when
lowering shutter speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls,
instantly seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never
realize what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.
20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use of its
own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender on the
front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would with a DSLR.
Framing and the included background is relative to the subject at the time and
has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens in use. Your f/ratio
(which determines your depth-of-field), is a computation of focal-length divided
by aperture diameter. Increase the focal-length and you make your DOF shallower.
No different than opening up the aperture to accomplish the same. The two
methods are identically related where DOF is concerned.
21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs with
just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up on ISO25
and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S camera can't
go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S camera can have
larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in existence. The time
when you really need a fast lens to prevent camera-shake that gets amplified at
those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs you can take perfectly fine hand-held
images at super-zoom settings. Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures
at long focal lengths require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They
need high ISOs, you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are
some excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.
22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any way
determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of around
$100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer today. IF they
have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award winning photograph with
a cardboard Brownie Box camera made a century ago. If you can't take excellent
photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able to get good photos on a DSLR
either. Never blame your inability to obtain a good photograph on the kind of
camera that you own. Those who claim they NEED a DSLR are only fooling
themselves and all others. These are the same people that buy a new camera every
year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only had the right camera, a better camera,
better lenses, faster lenses, then I will be a great photographer!" Camera
company's love these people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will
make their photography better, because they never were a good photographer to
begin with. The irony is that by them thinking that they only need to throw
money at the problem, they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real
problem is. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why these
self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras instantly reveal to
them their piss-poor photography skills.
23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera gear.
They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile and tell
them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the look on their
face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that lost money, and a
sadness just courses through every fiber of their being. Wondering why they
can't get photographs as good after they spent all that time and money. Get good
on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun experience.
24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth mentioning
the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that is instantly
ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more award-winning
photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home, collecting dust,
and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack or camera bag, hoping
that you'll lug it around again some day.
25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you. That's
like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS STUPID AND I
DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only take it out when
needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with all your photos. And
should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're not out $20,000. They are
inexpensive to replace.
There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more than
enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras are just
better, all around. No doubt about it.
The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in just
one short phrase:
"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains a
foolish thing."
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 12 2008 10:02 am
From: Darnel Taylor
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:49:07 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>Rich wrote:
>
>> No, it is simply too expensive to produce a superzoom that could
>> render the quality of more modest DSLR zoom ranges. Plus, when these
>> P&Ss get bigger sensors, the zoom lens gets larger and larger, making
>> the camera larger than the smallest DSLRs...
>
>Yes, that's the root of the problem with the super-zoom P&S cameras. If
>they make the sensor large enough to solve the noise and dynamic range
>issues, the lens becomes so large that you've got a camera that is as
>large and heavy as a D-SLR yet still suffers from the other drawbacks of
>a P&S such as the slow auto-focus, and plus it's not any cheaper. Plus
>you're stuck with the compromise of the wide range zoom lens with its
>distortion and CA.
>
>Fortunately, increasing D-SLR sales indicate that more and more people
>understand the advantages of D-SLRs.
Many points outlined below completely disprove your usual resident-troll
bullshit. You can either read it and educate yourself, or don't read it and
continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a virtual-photographer
newsgroup-troll and a fool.
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (tel-extender) add-on lenses for many makes and models
of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your photography
gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can far surpass any
range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or will ever be made for
larger format cameras.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than any
DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used with
high-quality tel-extenders, which by the way, do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Only DSLRs suffer from that problem due to the manner in which
their tele-converters work. They can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than any
DSLR and its glass in existence. Some excellent fish-eye adapters can be added
to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic-aberration nor
edge-softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this allows you to
seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm equivalent focal-length
up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own lens.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than larger
sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic Range vs. an
APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2861257547_9a7ceaf3a1_o.jpg
4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent) sensors
used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much smaller.
Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures and are more
easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for DSLRs. This also
allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than DSLR glass which is
only good for one aperture setting per lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S
glass can out-resolve even the best DSLR glass ever made. After all is said and
done, you will spend 1/4th to 1/50th the price that you would have to in order
to get comparable performance in a DSLR camera. When you buy a DSLR you are
investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips, external
flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc. etc. The
outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial DSLR body
purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their banks.
5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera plus one
small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing just a couple
pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would require over 10 to 20
pounds of DSLR body and lenses. You can carry the whole P&S kit in one roomy
pocket of a wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy
backpack. You also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.
6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer, you
will not be barred from using your camera at public events, stage-performances,
and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots, you won't so easily
alert all those within a block around, from the obnoxious noise that your DSLR
is making, that you are capturing anyone's images. For the more dedicated
wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not endanger your life when
photographing potentially dangerous animals by alerting them to your presence.
7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you may
capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where any
evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance. Without the
need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware into remote
areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time allotted for bringing
back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for unattended time-lapse
photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you may capture those unusual
or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a rare slime-mold's propagation,
that you happened to find in a mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest
laptop or other time-lapse hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that
CHDK brings to the creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to
list them all here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )
8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast subject
motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the need of
artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone. Nor will
their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane shutter
distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when photographed with all
DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions example-image link in #10.)
9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including shutter-speeds
of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_High-Speed_Shutter_%26_Flash-Sync without
the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter flash-units that
must strobe for the full duration of the shutter's curtain to pass over the
frame. The other downside to those kinds of flash units, is that the
light-output is greatly reduced the faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed
used that is faster than your camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the
flash output. Not so when using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash
is recorded no matter the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK
capable cameras where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the
lightning-fast single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is
1/10,000 of a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a
second, then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also
don't require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may
be used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that can
compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html
10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground, 90-degrees
from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously loud slapping
mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily damaged, expensive
repair costs, etc.
11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments, or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street, you're not
worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot (fewer missed
shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete while you do, and
not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos that day from having
gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous photographer you're no
longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of unneeded glass, allowing you to
carry more of the important supplies, like food and water, allowing you to trek
much further than you've ever been able to travel before with your old D/SLR
bricks.
12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available allow for the deep DOF
required for excellent macro-photography, WITHOUT the need of any image
destroying, subject irritating, natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the
planet can compare in the quality of available-light macro photography that can
be accomplished with nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera.
13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo audio
recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature where a
still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong. E.g. recording
the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living field-mice. With your
P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't miss that once-in-a-lifetime
chance to record some unexpected event, like the passage of a bright meteor in
the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion, or any other newsworthy event. Imagine
the gaping hole in our history of the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras
there at the time. The mystery of how it exploded would have never been solved.
Or the amateur 8mm film of the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready
P&S camera being with you all the time might capture something that will be a
valuable part of human history one day.
14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your final
image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your composition by
trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With the ability to
overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area alerts (and dozens of
other important shooting data) directly on your electronic viewfinder display
you are also not going to guess if your exposure might be right this time. Nor
do you have to remove your eye from the view of your subject to check some
external LCD histogram display, ruining your chances of getting that perfect
shot when it happens.
15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and sensors
that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as light-levels
drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in total darkness by
using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other multi-purpose cameras are
capable of taking still-frame and videos of nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as
well. Shooting videos and still-frames of nocturnal animals in the total-dark,
without disturbing their natural behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away
with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is not only possible, it's been done, many times, by
myself. (An interesting and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly
stomped to death by an irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash
come from.)
16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly 100%
silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither scaring it away
nor changing their natural behavior with your existence. Nor, as previously
mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your direction. You are recording
nature as it is, and should be, not some artificial human-changed distortion of
reality and nature.
17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the greatest
degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence, with its
inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving subject will
EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A leaf-shutter or
electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will capture your moving
subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S photography will no longer lead a
biologist nor other scientist down another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.
18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all the
popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those agonizingly
slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the shot is recorded.
In the hands of an experienced photographer that will always rely on prefocusing
their camera, there is no hit & miss auto-focusing that happens on all
auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This allows you to take advantage of the
faster shutter response times of P&S cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that
if you really want to get every shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in
any camera.
19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately relay
the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate preview of
what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3 seconds or
1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the crisp sharp outlines
of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100% accurately depicted in
your viewfinder before you even record the shot. What you see in a P&S camera is
truly what you get. You won't have to guess in advance at what shutter speed to
use to obtain those artistic effects or those scientifically accurate nature
studies that you require or that your client requires. When testing CHDK P&S
cameras that could have shutter speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was
amazed that I could half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a
Dremel-Drill's 30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real
time, without ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when
lowering shutter speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls,
instantly seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never
realize what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.
20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use of its
own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender on the
front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would with a DSLR.
Framing and the included background is relative to the subject at the time and
has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens in use. Your f/ratio
(which determines your depth-of-field), is a computation of focal-length divided
by aperture diameter. Increase the focal-length and you make your DOF shallower.
No different than opening up the aperture to accomplish the same. The two
methods are identically related where DOF is concerned.
21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs with
just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up on ISO25
and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S camera can't
go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S camera can have
larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in existence. The time
when you really need a fast lens to prevent camera-shake that gets amplified at
those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs you can take perfectly fine hand-held
images at super-zoom settings. Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures
at long focal lengths require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They
need high ISOs, you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are
some excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.
22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any way
determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of around
$100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer today. IF they
have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award winning photograph with
a cardboard Brownie Box camera made a century ago. If you can't take excellent
photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able to get good photos on a DSLR
either. Never blame your inability to obtain a good photograph on the kind of
camera that you own. Those who claim they NEED a DSLR are only fooling
themselves and all others. These are the same people that buy a new camera every
year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only had the right camera, a better camera,
better lenses, faster lenses, then I will be a great photographer!" Camera
company's love these people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will
make their photography better, because they never were a good photographer to
begin with. The irony is that by them thinking that they only need to throw
money at the problem, they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real
problem is. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why these
self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras instantly reveal to
them their piss-poor photography skills.
23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera gear.
They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile and tell
them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the look on their
face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that lost money, and a
sadness just courses through every fiber of their being. Wondering why they
can't get photographs as good after they spent all that time and money. Get good
on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun experience.
24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth mentioning
the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that is instantly
ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more award-winning
photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home, collecting dust,
and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack or camera bag, hoping
that you'll lug it around again some day.
25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you. That's
like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS STUPID AND I
DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only take it out when
needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with all your photos. And
should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're not out $20,000. They are
inexpensive to replace.
There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more than
enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras are just
better, all around. No doubt about it.
The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in just
one short phrase:
"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains a
foolish thing."
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