adobe.photography
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Be VERY Afraid … - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/cf82f66e37b5ce25?hl=en
* So is the photography forum dead or grasping for its last breath? - 20
messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/df98f10b5350a14c?hl=en
* Another Macro/Close Up Thread - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/004dbdcea2dc130a?hl=en
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TOPIC: Be VERY Afraid …
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/cf82f66e37b5ce25?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 20 2009 12:19 pm
From: Laurentiu_G_Todie@adobeforums.com
"Businessmen that lead big corporations are indeed s.o.b.'s and, these days, also imbeciles."
I now know another one of Ramón's many opinions : )
(I don't share it, but it's good to know)
I kindah like the new CEO of AIG; he blushes too much, but he made a good point in congress.
wait a minute! I think that most congress people are imbeciles, especially dodd, but barney too : )
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TOPIC: So is the photography forum dead or grasping for its last breath?
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/df98f10b5350a14c?hl=en
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== 1 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:11 am
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
Wow. I have really come to enjoy this forum, warts and all. I do hope we don't lose it and lose the ability to post images that we retain all the rights to. :(
If this goes away, know that I will miss you guys!
== 2 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 7:58 am
From: Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com
I think it died!
== 3 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 8:36 am
From: Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com
Agreed the new Forum design is very poor. Why in the world would one intentionally apply a Windoze look and feel to forum design?
== 4 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:22 am
From: Ho
Why in the world would one intentionally apply a Windoze look and feel...
Because of its inherent superiority?
== 5 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:58 am
From: LRK@adobeforums.com
Because we don't really know what the future holds, on many levels, I would like to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude for the years of interaction and friendships we've built in both this forum, and the Photoshop Forum.
My life, and even my business, has been profoundly affected by the generous advice, interaction, encouragement, and constructive criticism I've received by so many of you.
I would like to share with you a few specifics of how my life has been enriched.
First off, I never would have even picked up a SLR had it not been for those of you who continually encouraged me when I was looking to upgrade from the Nikon 990 to another point and shoot. Not only have I been through three SLR's, but since that time I've actually being able to generate income in the realm of photography. Among some of the jobs that have come to me are weddings, portraiture, children, families, product, and more. I am aware of my limitations though and don't presume to be more than I am. For this reason I have turned down jobs that I either felt were either out of the realm of my expertise, too big for me, or too stressful. But I cannot say the opportunities have not been there.
The changes in my life spread farther because of the skills many of you have helped me acquire. I'm in my third year serving on the Board of Directors for our local pro photographer's guild and have received several awards for various volunteer work, both on a local, state, and even national level related to design work submitted to the FPP and even the PPA in both 2007 and 2008. This would never have happened had some of you not been there for me when I asked for advice.
Going farther back in history, I will never forget one of my first experiences with the Adobe Forums. I started a thread about Photo Retouching & Restoration in the Photoshop Forum. At that time I was restoring an old photo pro bono for a friend. I posted my progress along the way, and received tons of advice. This was when I became familiar with Wade, Ann, Bonnie, Scott, Neil, Buko, Chris Cox, Ken, MO, and several others. I'm trying to remember the name of that nice guy from Tampa also.
The project went on for about three months if I remember right. This was the beginning of my infamous "long" threads. Just about the time I thought the retouch job was good enough I would get another constructive criticism on something. Scott Weichert in particular. I can remember laughing as hard as I've ever laughed. I thought I was done and ready to go, and Scott pointed out that it could be better. This would mean disassembling some of my hundreds of layers to go back and get it right.
Then when I needed business advice, I started another infamous long thread, having to do with Business Pricing. Again, I received an outpouring of advice that truly made it possible for me to gain the confidence to charge more. I still have trouble with this area, but at least I can now charge enough to make it worth being in business, for which I've also been blessed.
One milestone that was crossed was when Ken Neilson sent me his sample package on how to setup Job Tickets, and keep track of client jobs, etc. This was after having lost $500 on a client job where there was confusion regarding all the different requests at different times. Ken's timely advice has saved me from making the same mistake again. To this day I think about Ken when I set up a new job ticket. Others also helped with this.
There is so much more I could go on to share with you all that would one way or another be related to some advice or support I received here at the forums.
Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention my first experience using Studio Lights at a Valentine's Banquet for portraits. I would never have pulled it off had it not been for the help I received from some of you, such as Ann, Phil, Phil Scarsbrook, Allen, Wade, and so many more. There was even the added help of phone calls from Ann Shelbourne and Phil Scarsbrook when I needed the extra help.
I'm running of time as I've been asked to take pictures at a baby shower today… so this is a rush post, and I'm sure I've forgotten to mention some of you… but please know that I am ever so grateful for the unselfishness, patience, and generosity that you all have shown to me over the years.
Whatever happens in the future, my prayers are that each of you will be blessed in some special way!
Much love to you all…
Linda
== 6 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 10:52 am
From: Ramona_Dear@adobeforums.com
wow! ... is this goodbye?
== 7 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:07 pm
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
Ramona,
probably not truly goodbye, but the new fora might make our interactions much more limited and difficult. If Adobe doesn't change their TOS stance on images posted to their servers, I don't think there are *any* of us who are willing to simply give our photos, and their respective rights, away by posting here. That alone will kill this particular forum.
I love learning and seeing what is posted here. It has expanded my knowledge and awareness of many things, photography being only one of them. One example: Fred enlightening us to what is happening to the forests around him, both in words and via his photos. I don't think I would have known much about this issue without his diligence. By the way Fred, I salute you in your efforts. :)
In short, if Adobe wants to take "credit" for our photos, who is going to post? If no one posts ... the forum dies. :(
== 8 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:21 pm
From: Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com
I certainly hope not!
This Forum has always been such a special place that i hope that it can survive the move to the decidedly different new forums.
I do think that we all need to be very careful to always post any images from a link on an external server such as pixentral (and always include both an embedded metadata Copyright statement and an obvious © Watermark) and we should NEVER post images directly into the Adobe Forums' pages even though that facility is now there.
We have no way of knowing if Adobe would ever abuse the powers that they have given themselves (whether intentionally or unintentionally) in Clause 8; but so far we have received no response from John Cornicello, or anyone else from Adobe, as to whether this matter is being investigated or the situation clarified.
== 9 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:32 pm
From: Lawrence_Hudetz@adobeforums.com
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of any new management?
== 10 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:47 pm
From: pfigen
The way I read it, anything that gets posted on the new forum, regardless of whether it's posted directly or through a link to an outside server, automatically has the non-exclusive copyright assigned to Adobe, and since there is no place to effectively cross that out, you either participate knowing that you're being taken advantage of or you move on to a less oppressive regime.
== 11 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:27 pm
From: halsch@adobeforums.com
I do not post very often in this forum, but I lurk here almost every day - when I am home.
Like Linda, I have benefitted a great deal in the last four or five years from the postings in this forum; I am not a professional, just an active amateur, but like everyone else, I do like to take good pictures and process them with some degree of competence. I have also enjoyed on many occasions the pictures posted here.
Unfortunately, all you can count on in this life is CHANGE. We will just hope that we can adapt to the new forum with some degree of the pleasure the old forum gave us.
Thank you all for the help and pleasure you have given me!!!!
Hal
== 12 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:45 pm
From: Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com
automatically has the non-exclusive copyright assigned to Adobe,
I don't think that it actually transfers the Copyright because under the law that can ONLY be transferred on a case by case basis by a signed written agreement between the two parties.
But what they are attempting to purloin are the Rights to Unlimited Use in Perpetuity and without compensation to the Artist.
If Adobe fails to amend TOS Clause 8, hopefully some well-healed lawyer will bring a Class Action Lawsuit against them — but that doesn't help us in the meantime.
== 13 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 2:21 pm
From: pfigen
Ann,
It's very possible that the language may not be legal. It's also true that most of the images posted here have never been registered with the U.S. copyright office or the copyright office from wherever they have been posted. This language is very similar to the language that record companies and even National Geographic (one of the worst offenders) have tried to use with me.
Upon further reflection, I think that the very act of you agreeing to their terms and conditions is all that's needed. You have agreed to their terms. What is needed is a legal clarification from a good copyright attorney as to what it all really means. Until then, I would not assume anything but the worst.
== 14 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:36 pm
From: Hopper@adobeforums.com
and the way I am understanding it, that clause applies to *this* forum as well. Am I wrong??
== 15 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:28 pm
From: pfigen
The thought had crossed my mind too, and that is reinforced by the fact that we've had to re-sign up here, and most of us did without reading any fine print.
== 16 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:49 pm
From: Ozpeter@adobeforums.com
I'm sure we discussed this "Adobe's rights" thing months back - and the photos continued to be posted here.
== 17 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:51 pm
From: pfigen
I don't recall any such discussion. Care to call it back up?
== 18 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:08 pm
From: Ozpeter@adobeforums.com
John Cornicello posted this on the ephemeral test site -
"Might as well post the entire section...
--------------------------------------
8. Use of Your Content.
a. Adobe does not claim ownership of Your Content. However, except as provided in Section 8(b), you grant Adobe a worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display Your Content (in whole or in part) and to incorporate Your Content into other Materials or works in any format or medium now known or later developed.
And now in more common terms: We realize that this section might look a bit scary and so we want to point out a few things. This section only applies to those portions of our sites, such as User Forums, where we intend for users to share content freely with Adobe and with each other. It does not apply to all of the content that you share, contribute or post to our sites. For example, it does not apply to content hosted by Photoshop.com or Acrobat.com. For services like those, we will provide customized license grants that are consistent with the spirit and intent of those services and that are appropriate for the kinds of content we expect you to share within them. (We say this more formally below.) So we encourage you to be selective when deciding which content to contribute under this license and we want you to be sure that you are comfortable granting the above rights when it comes to that specific content.
-----------------------------------
Which basically means that you give Adobe permission to display the image on the site. Without those terms we would not not be able to display (perform, distribute, reproduce, modify (resize), publish, etc.) your image on the site.
I will see if they have some clarification on that part in italics that refers to Forums.
Thanks!"
(That's the end of what John said)
I can appreciate that professional photographers are highly sensitive to this kind of issue but it does appear to be intended to (for instance) prevent someone who has posted an image here from then demanding payment from Adobe because the company have then distributed it worldwide on their site (the forum). That's why I've suggested adding words which gives them the right only to publish it in the context in which it was posted (ie the forum or its successors, eg the new Jive version).
== 19 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:55 pm
From: Nick_Decker@adobeforums.com
Which basically means that you give Adobe permission to display the image
on the site.
Which is, I'm sure, what Adobe intended. Are they trying to cover their asses? You betcha.
Other than that, if you don't feel comfortable with posting your images here, don't. I really don't think that the recent aura of this forum being dead is justified.
== 20 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:08 pm
From: pfigen
What he's saying, if you read the translation, is that they're only going to steal images from the forums - the only place where people post images, not the business side of their website.
Those are the same terms I read, and they're still complete bs.
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TOPIC: Another Macro/Close Up Thread
http://groups.google.com/group/adobe.photography/t/004dbdcea2dc130a?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:25 am
From: Ho
really, when was the last time you saw a flower in a foot of water?
Last June, during the midwestern floods. Didn't get a shot because I couldn't paddle with one hand.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 12:05 pm
From: Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com
really, when was the last time you saw a flower in a foot of water?
Much of the summer. Water lilies.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:16 pm
From: -shep-@adobeforums.com
Last June, during the midwestern floods. Didn't get a shot because I couldn't
paddle with one hand.
You might have another chance this Spring/Summer, Ho. We haven't had much precipitation for a while, but I still see water sitting above the ground where it wouldn't normally be. So, if we have anything beyond a modicum of rain this Spring, we could have some flooding again.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 6:08 pm
From: Donald_Reese@adobeforums.com
Guess you are right on that one.
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