Photoshop How To Use: rec.photo.digital - 26 new messages in 8 topics

rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en

rec.photo.digital@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Again! Another camera goes soft with a pixel jump!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/4835529f468f2a49?hl=en
* life after Windows.... - 19 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/02823f38853c8136?hl=en
* Help: How convert camera's bloated Motion Jpegs to MPEG-1? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/81df20a1782ca2be?hl=en
* I like this picture ... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/0bc27def753341f6?hl=en
* Olympus admits a try at "pro" would gut their 4/3rds system - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8ef3252b6bf18872?hl=en
* Why does Adobe not police Ebay? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8e381dbc19b4716a?hl=en
* battery power vs. digital memory - which accessory to buy first? - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/65e3b03b773d7715?hl=en
* Bit more DOF, bit more light, bit better? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f365636f866354dc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Again! Another camera goes soft with a pixel jump!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/4835529f468f2a49?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 1:54 pm
From: "Charles"

"Martin Brown" <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dVwyl.102692$Rg3.82866@newsfe17.iad...

> It is more likely that the sensor is outpacing the capabilities of the
> glass and end user combined. Are the images still soft on a tripod and
> taken in good light at the optimum f ratio for diffraction limited
> imaging?

The tried and true weak link maxim. The emphasis on sensor resolution was
once important, but is now mostly a tiresome marketing ploy.

> Sharpness sells so a lot of the lower end cameras by default do some
> fairly brutal in camera sharpening to add extra punch. The high end
> cameras tend to record more accurately what the lens actually saw.

Wow, how true this is with beginners who see sharpness above all factors but
seem to miss (ignore?) the ugly artifacts.

> The search of ever larger numbers of pixels is running out of steam. If
> the pixels are too small you get poor signal to noise (not that it will
> stop the marketeers fooling Joe Public with their uber-megapixel race).

Noise really shows up with the crammed sensors. The fixes fuzz the picture
and the EFFECTIVE resolution is less than what can be achieved with a
reasonable design.

Alas, the horsepower race and the watts per channel race and the digital
cameral MP race will never completely die because consumers are too often
keyed in one or two issues.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: life after Windows....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/02823f38853c8136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 1:55 pm
From: "William Black"

"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
news:HpKX8HW3n+yJFA8N@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...

> I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up

Can't afford it.

We just back up stuff onto the space on the server reserved for each
machine.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

== 2 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 1:57 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:36:46 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:

>>>>>>> If it tastes like cheese, stop eating immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...are you a man.... or a mouse?
>>>>>>
>>>>> ... are you a cardigan.... or a blouse?
>>>>
>>>>I Sir, am neither... I have the honour m'lud to be so fortunate to 'ave
>>>>been promoted to the high office of he who is known as 'The groom of the
>>>>stool'<doff cap> nicetomeetcha <spit><offers hand in friendship>
>>>>
>>> Funny looking hand ...
>>> ,,, are you a pelican.... or a grouse?
>>
>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>
> As carried by that artist Toulouse?

When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...

--
You gotta fight, for your right, to party...
The best of the best in Freeware
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/
Registered Linux User #485718

== 3 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:12 pm
From: SMS

White Spirit wrote:
> Chris H wrote:
>
>> CRAP Linux is NOT big in the embedded market for years. The areas
>> where it is common it is known for being unreliable.
>
> Linux has in fact been in the embedded market for years, most notably in
> set top boxes, DVD players etc., and performs very reliably.

Linux doesn't have a large market share in embedded. It's mainly VxWorks
and Windows CE for embedded devices that have an OS at all.

It's also important to distinguish between a commercial version of Linux
and open source Linux. There are several commercial distributions of
Linux that have a small market share in embedded, but they're not free.
Embedded is one area where "Linux is free if time has no value" is
especially true.

== 4 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:13 pm
From: SMS

Mxsmanic wrote:
> John Stubbings writes:
>
>> Horse's for courses, there is only one OS that competes with Windows on the
>> Desktop. MAC. It's subsystem is based on............... BSD
>
> Because Apple couldn't afford to develop a completely new operating system,
> and its existing operating system was woefully inadequate (being roughly
> equivalent to the old Windows 3.1 architecturally).

I was rooting for BeOS. At least I got a tee-shirt from them.

== 5 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:15 pm
From: Roger Hunt

In article <HpKX8HW3n+yJFA8N@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris H
<chris@phaedsys.org> writes

>I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up

The knob on my RAID card goes up to 11.
--
Roger Hunt

== 6 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:11 pm
From: Roger Hunt

In article <gqgq70$d3b$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
<anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:36:46 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> If it tastes like cheese, stop eating immediately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...are you a man.... or a mouse?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... are you a cardigan.... or a blouse?
>>>>>
>>>>>I Sir, am neither... I have the honour m'lud to be so fortunate to 'ave
>>>>>been promoted to the high office of he who is known as 'The groom of the
>>>>>stool'<doff cap> nicetomeetcha <spit><offers hand in friendship>
>>>>>
>>>> Funny looking hand ...
>>>> ,,, are you a pelican.... or a grouse?
>>>
>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>
>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>
>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>
Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...
--
Roger Hunt

== 7 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:20 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:11:34 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:

>>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>>
>>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>>
>>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>>
> Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...

Or become a netKop if you wanna go tuttin'

--
You gotta fight, for your right, to party...
The best of the best in Freeware
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/
Registered Linux User #485718

== 8 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:29 pm
From: Roger Hunt

In article <gqgrip$os3$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
<anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:11:34 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>
>>>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>>>
>>>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>>>
>>>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>>>
>> Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...
>
>Or become a netKop if you wanna go tuttin'
>
They smell of overcooked muttin'
--
Roger Hunt

== 9 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:30 pm
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

William Black wrote:
> "Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
> news:HpKX8HW3n+yJFA8N@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
>
>> I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up
>
> Can't afford it.
>
> We just back up stuff onto the space on the server reserved for each
> machine.
>

At £100/TB memory is cheap.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

== 10 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:32 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:29:33 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:

> In article <gqgrip$os3$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
> <anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:11:34 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>>
>>>>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>>>>
>>>>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>>>>
>>>>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>>>>
>>> Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...
>>
>>Or become a netKop if you wanna go tuttin'
>>
> They smell of overcooked muttin'

...and dissected cats after Ari's given 'em a cuttin'

--
You gotta fight, for your right, to party...
The best of the best in Freeware
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/
Registered Linux User #485718

== 11 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:34 pm
From: Roger Hunt

In article <gqgsa7$ugi$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
<anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:29:33 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article <gqgrip$os3$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
>> <anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>>>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:11:34 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>>>>>
>>>>>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>>>>>
>>>> Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...
>>>
>>>Or become a netKop if you wanna go tuttin'
>>>
>> They smell of overcooked muttin'
>
>...and dissected cats after Ari's given 'em a cuttin'
>
... any moment I'm sure he'll buttin'
--
Roger Hunt

== 12 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:40 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:15:10 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:

>>I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up
>
> The knob on my RAID card goes up to 11.

Good man... nothing like a bit of hot spare

--
web site at http://www.bbc.co.uk/ - news comment service, logic,
economics, energy, education, politics, etc .... no tits
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the working class [] don't feed the squirrels
can kiss my arse [] I mean the tories
i've got the foreman's job at last [] never trust a man with a wig
only when it's money -- i chav made good
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

== 13 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:48 pm
From: "William Black"

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:AcSyl.22121$c45.20508@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
> White Spirit wrote:
>> Chris H wrote:
>>
>>> CRAP Linux is NOT big in the embedded market for years. The areas where
>>> it is common it is known for being unreliable.
>>
>> Linux has in fact been in the embedded market for years, most notably in
>> set top boxes, DVD players etc., and performs very reliably.
>
> Linux doesn't have a large market share in embedded. It's mainly VxWorks
> and Windows CE for embedded devices that have an OS at all.
>
> It's also important to distinguish between a commercial version of Linux
> and open source Linux. There are several commercial distributions of Linux
> that have a small market share in embedded, but they're not free. Embedded
> is one area where "Linux is free if time has no value" is especially true.

Well, except for Symbian...

Which has the bulk of the 3G phone market...

--
William Black

== 14 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:49 pm
From: "William Black"

"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:732afsFs074fU2@mid.individual.net...
> William Black wrote:
>> "Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
>> news:HpKX8HW3n+yJFA8N@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>> I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up
>>
>> Can't afford it.
>>
>> We just back up stuff onto the space on the server reserved for each
>> machine.
>>
>
> At £100/TB memory is cheap.

I paid a little less.

Ebuyer is cheap.

--
William Black

== 15 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:53 pm
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

William Black wrote:
> "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:732afsFs074fU2@mid.individual.net...
>> William Black wrote:
>>> "Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote in message
>>> news:HpKX8HW3n+yJFA8N@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
>>>
>>>> I use RAID 10 and automatic off site back up
>>> Can't afford it.
>>>
>>> We just back up stuff onto the space on the server reserved for each
>>> machine.
>>>
>> At £100/TB memory is cheap.
>
> I paid a little less.
>
> Ebuyer is cheap.
>

Scan is cheaper

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

== 16 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:55 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:12:07 -0700, SMS wrote:

> Linux doesn't have a large market share in embedded. It's mainly VxWorks
> and Windows CE for embedded devices that have an OS at all.

Have you got stats on this?

== 17 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:57 pm
From: aracari

'Mxsmanic' wrote this:

>aracari writes:
>
>> Duh! Because neither are GUI op/systems.
>
>So?
>
>MS-DOS did have GUI-like add-ons.

It is not a GUI op/system.
Does the term 'commandline' mean anything to you?

>> The GUI is grafted on after development. That is one reason why
>> many functions exist in the op/sys which are not supported by the
>> GUI.
>
>Yes, for some operating systems and configurations.

I know of no mainstream GUI op/sys that hasn't been developed
in this way. Any other way would not pass muster.

>> See above. You don't quite understand how op/sys are developed
>> ...although I agree that GUIs take a lot of system resources.
>
>I've developed operating systems; I know a great deal about how they are
>designed. I've also seen the source code of just about every operating system
>I've used.

Amazing!

--
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

A socialist:"someone who knows everything but understands nothing"

== 18 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 3:00 pm
From: aracari

'Mxsmanic' wrote this:

>William Black writes:
>
>> Almost all users do almost nothing with their computers.
>
>Not true. There are two basic types of users: Those who have a computer for
>the sake of having a computer (the geeks), and those who have a computer in
>order to do productive things that interest them that just happen to require a
>computer. The latter group represents the vast majority of computer users.
>The former group represents the vast majority of Linux users.

That is a bad characterisation of computer users.

--
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

A socialist:"someone who knows everything but understands nothing"

== 19 of 19 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 3:00 pm
From: John Stubbings

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:34:32 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:

> In article <gqgsa7$ugi$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
> <anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:29:33 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>>
>>> In article <gqgrip$os3$1@news.motzarella.org>, John Stubbings
>>> <anna.riceDELETE-THIS@virgin.net> writes
>>>>On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:11:34 +0000, Roger Hunt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Neither Sir, I caught a rather nasty disease from a louse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As carried by that artist Toulouse?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When you ain't got nuttin', you got nuttin' ...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Become a pro golfer, if you're good at puttin' ...
>>>>
>>>>Or become a netKop if you wanna go tuttin'
>>>>
>>> They smell of overcooked muttin'
>>
>>...and dissected cats after Ari's given 'em a cuttin'
>>
> ... any moment I'm sure he'll buttin'

...unless Bob S's tommy gun 'as been going rat a tat tatin'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Help: How convert camera's bloated Motion Jpegs to MPEG-1?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/81df20a1782ca2be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:17 pm
From: Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember janice smith <smith@mail.com>
saying something like:

>Is there any free software which will do a reasonable job of
>compressing my bloated AVIs to MPEG-1?

SUPER does it for free. It's one of the best all rounders.
www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
Not just that, but lots more besides.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I like this picture ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/0bc27def753341f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:21 pm
From: "Frank ess"

I like this picture of the Veterans Memorial atop Mt Soledad, La
Jolla, California:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3388492642_7c9555d9ff_o.jpg

The pole at right is bending in a 30mph gale.

Image is uncropped, almost un-processed, reduced to size.

--
Frank ess

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Olympus admits a try at "pro" would gut their 4/3rds system
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8ef3252b6bf18872?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:26 pm
From: Alan Browne

Rich wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@Freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote in
> news:jq6dnfvAI4drclrUnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> Rich wrote:

>>> That's nice, but in the professional print world, 4:3 is still a lot
>>> closer to the average picture format than 3:2.
>> As if that means anything.
>>
>> It really doesn't matter what the frame proportions are within a
>> reasonable range of 1:1 to about 2:1. Photographs are not supposed to
>> be stuffed into a restrained proportion anymore than a painting is.
>>
>
> Part of the brag of the 1.5 crops over 4/3rds is that it is a bigger frame.
> It isn't if you crop it even a little.

You only crop if you need to for whatever end use is needed. So the
counter argument goes that when you need a larger aspect ratio photo,
4/3 wastes more pixels while getting less resolution for the image.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why does Adobe not police Ebay?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8e381dbc19b4716a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:28 pm
From: Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember SallyWasHere <sally934@verizon.net>
saying something like:

>
>Photoshop CS4, buy-it-now for less than $200?
>
>Close-ups of UPC and part numbers that don't match each other and don't
>match the item description?
>
>Why does this go on in a public place? Are ANY of the sales legit?
>
>A while back you couldn't even sell a scanner with open 800Mhz -- even one
>bought before the ban -- and now this?
>
>I know people complain that Ebay doesn't care, but why isn't Adobe
>involved?

This has been done before.
As was suggested, I think there's a real possibility that Adobe are
fully aware of all the hacked and cracked versions around and that those
same versions are in use by people who wouldn't have ever been legit
customers anyway, not at that price. The huge advantage for Adobe is
that it creates a user base of Adobe-familiar freeloaders, some of whom
will move into areas where Adobe will need to be paid for. Business
software auditing is having a real effect these days and while there are
some small companies running illegal software still, the vast majority
of them actually pay for it, so Adobe will benefit in the medium to
longer term.
In a way, it's a giant viral marketing scheme - the loss to Adobe is
minimal, but the goodwill and future sales generated is substantial, and
that's something you can't buy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: battery power vs. digital memory - which accessory to buy first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/65e3b03b773d7715?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:47 pm
From: Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember orida70 <orida70@gmail.com> saying
something like:

>I think getting additional battery power is more important than buying
>more memory cards. For one thing, a person can always review their
>images and free up more memory by erasing pictures they don't think
>are as important; however, when your [last] battery is dead, you're
>totally out of business.
>
>Read my review:
>
>http://roycebair.blogspot.com/2009/03/camera-battery-power-more-important.html
>
>This blog article is also about finding cheaper Li-ion batteries for
>your camera, that are 1/8 the cost of the OEM.

And this is nothing to do with you recommending a particular battery
comepany or the battery-linked Google ads on your blog page?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bit more DOF, bit more light, bit better?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f365636f866354dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 26 2009 2:57 pm
From: "Dudley Hanks"

Switched to manual mode for these.

Portrait 2:
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Portrait2-bw-small.jpg (bw,
quick loading)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Portrait2-bw.jpg (bw, full
size)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Portrait2-colour-small.jpg
(colour, quick loading)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Portrait2-colour.jpg
(colour, full size)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Portrait2.cr2 (original RAW)

Shredding:
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Shredding-bw-small (bw,
quick loading)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Shredding-bw.jpg (bw, full
size)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Shredding-colour-small.jpg
(colour, quick loading)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Shredding-colour.jpg
(colour, full size)
http://www.photography.dudley-hanks.com/Images/Shredding.cr2 (original RAW)

Take Care,
Dudley

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