rec.photo.digital
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Versace Glasses - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8afb4bc5ef2d44ec?hl=en
* Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/1f8ad7c1c284bd60?hl=en
* grim news for photographers tourism and rights - 10 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f739094ebddaa70e?hl=en
* It's just wrong - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/06e32c9cd78fc6f1?hl=en
* 25+ Reasons to Choose a High-Quality P&S Camera Over an Obnoxiously LOUD and
Overpriced dslr - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ed8d9e87086036ed?hl=en
* P&S'ers, your day has come - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/def65d0abf6b4a11?hl=en
* Nikon D-5000 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/541401c3b2747095?hl=en
* transfer picture to phone? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/65d9d2bb5585662d?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Versace Glasses
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8afb4bc5ef2d44ec?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:01 am
From: gandongshoe@163.com
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to make mutual benefit! We will be your first choice of suppliers for
TOP quality products!
Best Service, Highest Quality, Competitive price, Timely delivery
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/1f8ad7c1c284bd60?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:26 am
From: "Roger Blackwell"
"Kurt Sloane" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:vPKdnWgfCb3VR47XnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/3055945632/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2880091916/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2065913541/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/86142813/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/290702374/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/762244345/
>
> Although the media across the world have picked up on these photos, the
> crazy thing is that this is quite a "normal" sight in most major towns and
> cities in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night.
Well at least people don't get shot as they lay there which would happen in
some parts of the world. Life in the UK has its problems and its alienated
youth but I would still rather live here than in a country that bans
alcohol.
Roger
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:32 am
From: Chris H
In message <4a13e8d1$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Roger Blackwell
<r.blackwell1@nospamhomecall.co.uk> writes
>
>"Kurt Sloane" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:vPKdnWgfCb3VR47XnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/3055945632/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2880091916/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2065913541/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/86142813/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/290702374/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/762244345/
>>
>> Although the media across the world have picked up on these photos, the
>> crazy thing is that this is quite a "normal" sight in most major towns and
>> cities in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night.
>
>Well at least people don't get shot as they lay there which would happen in
>some parts of the world. Life in the UK has its problems and its alienated
>youth but I would still rather live here than in a country that bans
>alcohol.
The US got it back I think but still bans alcohol for under 21 in most
places I thought. Though you are more likely to be shot in US cities
than UK ones at the moment but it is getting touch and go these days.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:48 am
From: "PDM"
> Though you are more likely to be shot in US cities
> than UK ones at the moment but it is getting touch and go these days.
>
But, not if you are under 18 and black I'm afraid.
PDM
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 5:04 am
From: Caesar Romano
On Wed, 20 May 2009 11:22:51 +0100, "Kurt Sloane" <me@privacy.net>
wrote Re Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
>Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/3055945632/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2880091916/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2065913541/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/86142813/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/290702374/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/762244345/
>
>Although the media across the world have picked up on these photos, the
>crazy thing is that this is quite a "normal" sight in most major towns and
>cities in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night.
Wow! No wonder the Muslims are kicking our ass.
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:58 am
From: Chris H
In message <4a13ee1d_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, PDM <pdcm99@[dele
tethisbit].invalid> writes
>
>> Though you are more likely to be shot in US cities
>> than UK ones at the moment but it is getting touch and go these days.
>>
>But, not if you are under 18 and black I'm afraid.
>PDM
Perhaps there should be a law to say that under 18 black people should
not drink and carry illegal guns?
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:09 am
From: Chris H
In message <0es715hd0r2suoqnk7jedqkc9e705fplne@4ax.com>, Caesar Romano
<Spam@uce.gov> writes
>On Wed, 20 May 2009 11:22:51 +0100, "Kurt Sloane" <me@privacy.net>
>wrote Re Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
>
>>Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/3055945632/
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2880091916/
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2065913541/
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/86142813/
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/290702374/
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/762244345/
>>
>>Although the media across the world have picked up on these photos, the
>>crazy thing is that this is quite a "normal" sight in most major towns and
>>cities in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night.
>
>Wow! No wonder the Muslims are kicking our ass.
Who is "our"?
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:20 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 03:22:51 -0700, "Kurt Sloane" <me@privacy.net> said:
> Ah, Cardiff, City of Culture:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/3055945632/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2880091916/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/2065913541/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/86142813/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/290702374/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/762244345/
>
> Although the media across the world have picked up on these photos, the
> crazy thing is that this is quite a "normal" sight in most major towns
> and cities in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night.
OK!
This being Wales, the question comes to mind regarding recent UK street
photography, sensitive souls and the Law;
"Why don't all the UK police departments get their training on
photography rights, in Cardiff?"
There haven't been any headlines regarding the arrest and prosecution
of photographers in that City.
That makes it appear to be an island of common sense and photographic
freedom in the UK, given all the other silly stories.
The other local recreational activities just beg to be recorded for
posterity and cultural history. I assume this was the aftermath of the
district Eistedford?
--
Regards,
Savageduck
==============================================================================
TOPIC: grim news for photographers tourism and rights
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f739094ebddaa70e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 4:30 am
From: Chris H
In message <4a13dce3$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, Fred
<fredapain@hotmail.com> writes
>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:kZCdnfUW-t_SJY7XnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> With the current hysteria about child molesters, it is pretty dangerous
>> for a single man to even visit a public park where children are playing,
>> and just sit and watch them play. Add a camera to that, and you can count
>> on a visit from the local law enforcement.
>>
>>
>It's got so stupid in the UK, that a father can feel guilty walking down the
>street alone with his own daughter!!
So how long have you had these guilt feelings about little girls?
Do you own a camera (all pedophiles are photographers)
Do you have an independent witness with you when you are alone with your
daughter?
Have you ever been to Salem? (sorry wrong inquisition :-)
It is getting VERY silly in the UK and it seems to be stoked up by the
government in a very 1984 way.
This week I saw an old chap passing a teenage girl siting alone at a
table in a cafe in the supermarket. He stopped touched he on the
shoulder and said "hello" ... then realise she was not Granddaughter,
nice or whatever said sorry and carried on.
Teenager had MP3 player plugged into both ears (and long hair so it was
not obvious) and did not hear what he had said.
30 seconds later mum and dad turn up with food. Teenager tell mum and
dad she had been assaulted and parents panic. Mother asked self and wife
at next table if we had seen the "assault".
We defused situation (wife has 30 years teaching experience) and told
parents there was no "assault" and had teenager not had both ears
plugged into MP3 player she would have been aware of what was said to
her by the "old pervert"
It is this sort of stupid reaction by parents and child that causes the
problems.
On the other side of things my son was mugged for his phone and wallet
last week. At least that is what was demanded of him. The reply was go
away. The mugger decide to try violence. My son (21 and being a rugby
player does not like pain) got the first punch in and laid out the
assailant and still has phone and wallet.
Apparently as my son hit first he is guilty of assault.... a demand
for money and phone with aggressive behaviour is no right to hit before
the mugger actually lands a blow. :-(
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:04 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 02:39:58 -0700, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> said:
> In message <200520090212135419%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
> <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes
>> In article <qPf8lSG5P8EKFAn9@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris H
>> <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>
>>> However as most "public" parks are owned there is a possibility that
>>> there is a no photography rule.
>>
>> if so, it needs to be posted.
>
> As with railway tickets in VERY small print "terms and conditions apply
> see park/station master"
>
>>> However the world is getting far too paranoid.
>>
>> yep.
>
> People need to relax about it. There is far to much PC and people
> demanding petty and stupid rights like you can't photograph my child in
> the street and worry a more about the freedoms we are loosing... like
> you can't take pictures on the street.
Damn!
I can remember the days of the professional street photographers, who
would work a crowded street of pedestrians taking candid shots, and
then approaching the subject to hand him/her a numbered ticket to
redeem the finished photograph for the stated fee.
I also rcall that some of those photographers had studio shop windows,
where many unclaimed photographs were on public display.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:16 am
From: Chris H
In message <2009052006042553177-savageduck1REMOVESPAM@mecom>, Savageduck
<savageduck1{REMOVESPAM}@me.com> writes
>On 2009-05-20 02:39:58 -0700, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> said:
>
>> In message <200520090212135419%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
>> <nospam@nospam.invalid> writes
>>> In article <qPf8lSG5P8EKFAn9@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris H
>>> <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> However as most "public" parks are owned there is a possibility
>>>>that
>>>> there is a no photography rule.
>>> if so, it needs to be posted.
>> As with railway tickets in VERY small print "terms and conditions
>>apply
>> see park/station master"
>>
>>>> However the world is getting far too paranoid.
>>> yep.
>> People need to relax about it. There is far to much PC and people
>> demanding petty and stupid rights like you can't photograph my child in
>> the street and worry a more about the freedoms we are loosing... like
>> you can't take pictures on the street.
>
>Damn!
>I can remember the days of the professional street photographers, who
>would work a crowded street of pedestrians taking candid shots, and
>then approaching the subject to hand him/her a numbered ticket to
>redeem the finished photograph for the stated fee.
>I also rcall that some of those photographers had studio shop windows,
>where many unclaimed photographs were on public display.
Well there is harassment and assault... clearly a bunch of perverts and
pedophiles.
The answer is if any of your children show perverted tendencies such as
an interest in rock and roll, photography, the opposite sex, the same
sex send them round to the local catholic orphanage when they can have
it beaten out of them in the name of love, God and democracy.....
The chain of abuse must be broken... most children are started off on
smoking, drugs, drink, sex, and photography by their parents or
brothers and sisters.
Should you see any homes with heroin, cocaine, pornography, alcohol or
camera equipment report it to the police or a priest (unless it is the
priest or youth workers home) and get these perverts reported..
I feel better now....
platonic love and kisses from
The Moral Majority.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:27 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:40:19 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
wrote:
>
>>and policeman did what
>>he had to do when a complaint was lodged. It was the boys at the
>>station house that behaved badly.
>
>So some policemen are ok and others not?
Of course.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:31 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 06:27:37 -0700, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> said:
> On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:40:19 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> and policeman did what
>>> he had to do when a complaint was lodged. It was the boys at the
>>> station house that behaved badly.
>>
>> So some policemen are ok and others not?
>
> Of course.
Thank you Tony.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:31 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:40:19 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
wrote:
>>We all want the police to do whatever is necessary to protect what we
>>think are our rights.
>
>No we don't. We want the police to protect our freedoms.
>
>> The photographers want to be able to take
>>photographs without being harassed or worse.
>
>And at the moment they are being harassed. Several UK photography
>magazines are now running regular "know your rights" columns because it
>has got so bad.
If "No we don't" is the correct response to "We all want the police to
do whatever is necessary to protect what we think are our rights",
then why are UK photography magazines running regular articles on
"know your rights"?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:53 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:48:57 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
wrote:
>
>However the world is getting far too paranoid.
>
I'm getting the impression that paranoia is a communicable disease
caught by the spread of germs from cameras in the UK. Read this
newsgroup, and you'd think that anyone carrying a camera or taking a
photograph will be harnessed and arrested in the UK and that all UK
police are focussed on the photographers.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 7:03 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:53:33 -0400, tony cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:48:57 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>However the world is getting far too paranoid.
>>
>I'm getting the impression that paranoia is a communicable disease
>caught by the spread of germs from cameras in the UK. Read this
>newsgroup, and you'd think that anyone carrying a camera or taking a
>photograph will be harnessed and arrested in the UK and that all UK
>police are focussed on the photographers.
Harnessing wrong-doers might be practiced in the UK, but I meant
"harassed".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 7:09 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 07:03:19 -0700, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> said:
> On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:53:33 -0400, tony cooper
> <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:48:57 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> However the world is getting far too paranoid.
>>>
>> I'm getting the impression that paranoia is a communicable disease
>> caught by the spread of germs from cameras in the UK. Read this
>> newsgroup, and you'd think that anyone carrying a camera or taking a
>> photograph will be harnessed and arrested in the UK and that all UK
>> police are focussed on the photographers.
>
> Harnessing wrong-doers might be practiced in the UK, but I meant
> "harassed".
Who would want to be saddled with that responsibility?
--
Regards,
Savageduck
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 7:38 am
From: tony cooper
On Wed, 20 May 2009 06:31:20 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1{REMOVESPAM}@me.com> wrote:
>On 2009-05-20 06:27:37 -0700, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> said:
>
>> On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:40:19 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> and policeman did what
>>>> he had to do when a complaint was lodged. It was the boys at the
>>>> station house that behaved badly.
>>>
>>> So some policemen are ok and others not?
>>
>> Of course.
>
>Thank you Tony.
I can't imagine why anyone would think differently. You have
competent and effective people in any group, and you have some bad
apples in any group.
I would have expected a competent police officer on the scene to try
to defuse this particular situation rather than making an arrest. I
would have expected him to take both parties aside and let them talk
it out until both parties were calmed down. Situations like this,
where there is no overt harm, are often resolved by an officer
enforcing a cooling off time or bringing the two parties together to
work out their differences.
The officer may have tried. Newspaper reports don't tell us all of
what went on; just the results. The newspaper reports don't tell us
who didn't back down or who didn't cooperate.
I'm not willing to assume that the unreasonable person in this
particular situation was the father, the photographer, or the
policeman. All we have to go on is a newspaper reporter's summary.
Newspaper reporters don't always bother to get the whole story or
report only what they think is newsworthy.
Besides, the major complaints of the photographer were not about being
arrested, but about how he was treated later. What he alleges he
endured later had nothing to do with photography. (Except that his
camera was confiscated) It had to do with how an arrestee on a minor
charge was treated in custody. That should be looked into.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's just wrong
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/06e32c9cd78fc6f1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 5:00 am
From: Caesar Romano
On Wed, 20 May 2009 08:39:42 GMT, Paul Heslop
<paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote Re Re: It's just wrong:
>it looks awfully like a piece of public art which has been around for
>a while, a part of the town, so to speak.
>
>on trying to discover the artist etc I found this page, sure to raise
>some smutty comments ho ho but the theme seems to be quite common
>http://www.bronze-depot.com/catalog/category.asp?catid=3
Well, there it is. The fourth row down on the left. It's not the same
sculpture, but it's the same artist or an intentional copy of his
style of work.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 25+ Reasons to Choose a High-Quality P&S Camera Over an Obnoxiously
LOUD and Overpriced dslr
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ed8d9e87086036ed?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 5:15 am
From: Paul Remier
On Wed, 20 May 2009 16:40:43 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Paul Remier wrote:
>>
>> 1. P&S cameras can have more sea[*SLAP!*]
>
>Fuck off, kook. Oh, & quit switching names to avoid killfiles, or I'll
>have a little chat with your provider.
Dear Resident-Troll (and a troll so ignorant that it doesn't even know what
the word "spam" means on the internet),
Your reply is completely off-topic. Here are some (new & improved) topics
that befit this newsgroup. Please consider them for future discussions and
posts:
1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (telextender) add-on lenses for many makes and
models of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your
photography gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can
far surpass any range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or
will ever be made for larger format cameras.
2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than
any DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used
with high-quality telextenders, which do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Following is a link to a hand-held taken image of a 432mm
f/3.5 P&S lens increased to an effective 2197mm f/3.5 lens by using two
high-quality teleconverters. To achieve that apparent focal-length the
photographer also added a small step of 1.7x digital zoom to take advantage
of the RAW sensor's slightly greater detail retention when upsampled
directly in the camera for JPG output. As opposed to trying to upsample a
JPG image on the computer where those finer RAW sensor details are already
lost once it's left the camera's processing. (Digital-zoom is not totally
empty zoom, contrary to all the net-parroting idiots online.) A HAND-HELD
2197mm f/3.5 image from a P&S camera (downsized only, no crop):
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/3060429818_b01dbdb8ac_o.jpg Note that
any in-focus details are cleanly defined to the corners and there is no CA
whatsoever. If you study the EXIF data the author reduced contrast and
sharpening by 2-steps, which accounts for the slight softness overall. Any
decent photographer will handle those operations properly in editing with
more powerful tools and not allow a camera to do them for him. A full f/3.5
aperture achieved at an effective focal-length of 2197mm (35mm equivalent).
Only DSLRs suffer from loss of aperture due to the manner in which their
teleconverters work. P&S cameras can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than
any DSLR and its glass for far less cost. Some excellent fish-eye adapters
can be added to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic
aberration nor edge softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this
allows you to seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm
equivalent focal-length up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own
lens.
3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than
larger sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic
Range vs. an APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2861257547_9a7ceaf3a1_o.jpg
4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent)
sensors used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much
smaller. Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures
and are more easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for
DSLRs. This also allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than
DSLR glass which usually performs well at only one aperture setting per
lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S glass can out-resolve even the best
DSLR glass ever made. See this side-by-side comparison for example
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml
When adjusted for sensor size, the DSLR lens is creating 4.3x's the CA that
the P&S lens is creating, and the P&S lens is resolving almost 10x's the
amount of detail that the DSLR lens is resolving. A difficult to figure 20x
P&S zoom lens easily surpassing a much more easy to make 3x DSLR zoom lens.
After all is said and done you will spend anywhere from 1/10th to 1/50th
the price on a P&S camera that you would have to spend in order to get
comparable performance in a DSLR camera. To obtain the same focal-length
ranges as that $340 SX10 camera with DSLR glass that *might* approach or
equal the P&S resolution, it would cost over $6,500 to accomplish that (at
the time of this writing). This isn't counting the extra costs of a
heavy-duty tripod required to make it functional at those longer
focal-lengths and a backpack to carry it all. Bringing that DSLR investment
to over 20 times the cost of a comparable P&S camera. When you buy a DSLR
you are investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips,
external flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc.
etc. The outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial
DSLR body purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their
banks.
5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera
plus one small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing
just a couple pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would
require over 15 pounds of DSLR body + lenses. The P&S camera mentioned in
the previous example is only 1.3 lbs. The DSLR + expensive lenses that
*might* equal it in image quality comes in at 9.6 lbs. of dead-weight to
lug around all day (not counting the massive and expensive tripod, et.al.)
You can carry the whole P&S kit + accessory lenses in one roomy pocket of a
wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy backpack. You
also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.
6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer,
you will not be barred from using your camera at public events,
stage-performances, and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots
you won't so easily alert all those within a block around, by the obnoxious
clattering noise that your DSLR is making, that you are capturing anyone's
images. For the more dedicated wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not
endanger your life when photographing potentially dangerous animals by
alerting them to your presence.
7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you
may capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where
any evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance.
Without the need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware
into remote areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time
allotted for bringing back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for
unattended time-lapse photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you
may capture those unusual or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a
rare slime-mold's propagation, that you happened to find in a
mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest laptop or other time-lapse
hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that CHDK brings to the
creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to list them all
here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )
8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast
subject motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the
need of artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone.
Nor will their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane
shutter distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when
photographed with all DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions
example-image link in #10.)
9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including
shutter-speeds of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_High-Speed_Shutter_%26_Flash-Sync
without the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter
flash-units that must pulse their light-output for the full duration of the
shutter's curtain to pass slowly over the frame. The other downside to
those kinds of flash units is that the light-output is greatly reduced the
faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed used that is faster than your
camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the flash output. Not so when
using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash is recorded no matter
the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK capable cameras
where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the lightning-fast
single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is 1/10,000 of
a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a second,
then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also don't
require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may be
used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that
can compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html
10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground,
90-degrees from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously
loud slapping mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily
damaged, expensive repair costs, etc.
11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments; or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street;
you're not worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot
(fewer missed shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete
while you do; and not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos
that day from having gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous
photographer you're no longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of
unneeded glass, allowing you to carry more of the important supplies, like
food and water, allowing you to trek much further than you've ever been
able to travel before with your old D/SLR bricks.
12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available at longer
focal-lengths allow for the deep DOF required for excellent
macro-photography when using normal macro or tele-macro lens arrangements.
All done WITHOUT the need of any image destroying, subject irritating,
natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the planet can compare in the
quality of available-light macro photography that can be accomplished with
nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera. (To clarify for DSLR owners/promoters
who don't even know basic photography principles: In order to obtain the
same DOF on a DSLR you'll need to stop down that lens greatly. When you do
then you have to use shutter speeds so slow that hand-held
macro-photography, even in full daylight, is all but impossible. Not even
your highest ISO is going to save you at times. The only solution for the
DSLR user is to resort to artificial flash which then ruins the subject and
the image; turning it into some staged, fake-looking, studio setup.)
13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo
audio recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature
where a still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong.
E.g. recording the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living
field-mice. With your P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't
miss that once-in-a-lifetime chance to record some unexpected event, like
the passage of a bright meteor in the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion,
or any other newsworthy event. Imagine the gaping hole in our history of
the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras there at the time. The mystery
of how it exploded would have never been solved. Or the amateur 8mm film of
the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready P&S camera being with
you all the time might capture something that will be a valuable part of
human history one day.
14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your
final image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your
composition by trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With
the ability to overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area
alerts (and dozens of other important shooting data) directly on your
electronic viewfinder display you are also not going to guess if your
exposure might be right this time. Nor do you have to remove your eye from
the view of your subject to check some external LCD histogram display,
ruining your chances of getting that perfect shot when it happens.
15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and
sensors that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as
light-levels drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in
total darkness by using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other
multi-purpose cameras are capable of taking still-frame and videos of
nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as well. Shooting videos and still-frames
of nocturnal animals in the total-dark, without disturbing their natural
behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is
not only possible, it's been done, many times, by myself. (An interesting
and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly stomped to death by an
irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash come from.)
16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly
100% silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither
scaring it away nor changing their natural behavior with your existence.
Nor, as previously mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your
direction. You are recording nature as it is, and should be, not some
artificial human-changed distortion of reality and nature.
17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the
greatest degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence,
with its inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving
subject will EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A
leaf-shutter or electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will
capture your moving subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S
photography will no longer lead a biologist nor other scientist down
another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.
18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all
the popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those
agonizingly slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the
shot is recorded. In the hands of an experienced photographer that will
always rely on prefocusing their camera, there is no hit & miss
auto-focusing that happens on all auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This
allows you to take advantage of the faster shutter response times of P&S
cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that if you really want to get every
shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in any camera.
19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately
relay the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate
preview of what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3
seconds or 1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the
crisp sharp outlines of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100%
accurately depicted in your viewfinder before you even record the shot.
What you see in a P&S camera is truly what you get. You won't have to guess
in advance at what shutter speed to use to obtain those artistic effects or
those scientifically accurate nature studies that you require or that your
client requires. When testing CHDK P&S cameras that could have shutter
speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was amazed that I could
half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a Dremel-Drill's
30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real time, without
ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when lowering shutter
speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls, instantly
seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never realize
what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.
20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use
of its own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender
on the front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would
with a DSLR. Framing and the included background is relative to the subject
at the time and has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens
in use. Your f/ratio (which determines your depth-of-field), is a
computation of focal-length divided by aperture diameter. Increase the
focal-length and you make your DOF shallower. No different than opening up
the aperture to accomplish the same. The two methods are identically
related where DOF is concerned.
21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs
with just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up
on ISO25 and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S
camera can't go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S
camera can have larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in
existence. The time when you really need a fast lens to prevent
camera-shake that gets amplified at those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs
you can take perfectly fine hand-held images at super-zoom settings.
Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures at long focal lengths
require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They need high ISOs,
you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are some
excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.
22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any
way determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of
around $100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer
today. IF they have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award
winning photograph with a cardboard Brownie Box Camera made a century ago.
If you can't take excellent photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able
to get good photos on a DSLR either. Never blame your inability to obtain a
good photograph on the kind of camera that you own. Those who claim they
NEED a DSLR are only fooling themselves and all others. These are the same
people that buy a new camera every year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only
had the right camera, a better camera, better lenses, faster lenses, then I
will be a great photographer!" If they just throw enough money at their
hobby then the talent-fairy will come by one day, after just the right
offering to the DSLR gods was made, and bestow them with something that
they never had in the first place--talent. Camera company's love these
people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will make their
photography better, because they never were a good photographer to begin
with. They're forever searching for that more expensive camera that might
one day come included with that new "talent in a box" feature. The irony is
that they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real problem has been
all along. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why
these self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras
instantly reveal to them their piss-poor photography skills. It also
reveals the harsh reality that all the wealth in the world won't make them
any better at photography. It's difficult for them to face the truth.
23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera
gear. They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile
and tell them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the
look on their face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that
lost money, and a sadness just courses through every fiber of their being.
Wondering why they can't get photographs as good after they spent all that
time and money. Get good on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun
experience.
24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth
mentioning the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that
is instantly ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more
award-winning photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home,
collecting dust, and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack
or camera bag, hoping that you'll lug it around again some day.
25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you.
That's like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS
STUPID AND I DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only
take it out when needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with
all your photos. And should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're
not out $20,000. They are inexpensive to replace.
There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more
than enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras
are just better, all around. No doubt about it.
The phenomenon of the pretend-photographer usenet trolls yelling "You NEED
a DSLR!" can be summed up in just one short phrase:
"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains
a foolish thing."
==============================================================================
TOPIC: P&S'ers, your day has come
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/def65d0abf6b4a11?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 5:33 am
From: Franklin Kest
On Tue, 19 May 2009 16:24:33 -0700 (PDT), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Where you can (if you want) dispense with the tiny-sensored things you
>shoot with. I assembled a used DSLR set-up as cheaply as I could.
>DSLR- 6 megapixel $127.00. D70 body, no battery, no charger.
>1990s AF 35mm 70-300mm zoom $25.00.
>modern 18-55mm kit lens $60.00.
>battery and charger: $30.00.
>
>So, for $242.00 a camera that despite its age will still beat a
>pathetic P&S when it comes to image quality and a set-up that has a
>sufficiently long zoom range that will satisfy most people's needs.
>That's the price of a new middle-road P&S.
>
Oh let us entertain the useless troll just one more time, shall we?
See if you can get that dslr while also getting rid of that amazingly loud
and crappy slapping mirror, the image-distorting slow-sync shutter, the
bulk, weight, gargantuan size for all the optics that you need to make it
the least bit functional, the heavy tripod required to use it all, and
maybe, just maybe you've got a deal.
You couldn't give me a top of the line dslr today, even if it came with
every lens made that fits it. I got rid of all my dslr gear long ago. I'd
take a sledge to any new one even if given to me for free. When are you
going to realize that the freedom and flexibility afforded by a good P&S
camera FAR outweighs the meager ISO gain of a dslr? Some people are
smarter, more creative, more talented, more experienced, and more mobile
than you'll ever be in your pathetic internet-only life. For some real pros
the multitudes of drawbacks of any dslr is always a detriment to their
photography, NEVER an asset.
I'd ask you to get a clue but that is beyond you. The only experience that
you'll ever have with dslr's is from your chair and imagination. Dslr's
look good in print but are really lame pigs when used in real life.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:27 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 05:33:09 -0700, Franklin Kest <fkest@goawaytroll.org> said:
>>
>>
>
> Oh l.........
...and here he is again, darned sock and cheap troll deodorant.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nikon D-5000
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/541401c3b2747095?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 6:14 am
From: ASAAR
On Tue, 19 May 2009 23:50:33 -0700, Bob Williams wrote:
> ASAAR wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 May 2009 21:36:50 -0700, Bob Williams wrote:
>>
>>> Don't throw out the Coolpix 995 just yet.
>>> For Close-Up Photography, it will leave the D5000 in the dust.
>>
>> Not really. The CP995 may leave many other DSLRs in the dust, but
>> the D5000's LiveView (with magnification) is invaluable for macro
>> photography. Obviously not with a kit lens, but with either a micro
>> lens or mounting the kit (or other) lens on an extension tube. It
>> would be even better if the D5000 had a higher resolution display
>> such as that used in the D90/D300/etc.
>>
> Yes, but that is the problem.
> You must buy an ADDITIONAL lens or accessory attachments for the D5000.
> to get the picture that the 995 can capture out of the box.
You see it as a problem. I see it as an advantage. Add a good
macro lens or a single or reversed pair of lenses on a bellows and
the photo quality of the D5000 leaves the CP995 *far* behind in the
dust. Compared to its peers the 995 was a nice camera, but there's
more to photo life these days than taking nice eBay pix of small
objects, which can also be done by many other P&S cameras.
An "out of the box" CP995 wasn't sufficient for many of its
owners, as its accessories show. Here's DPReview's take on it :
> The solid, fixed converter lens and/or accessory mount with its
> small, 28mm threaded ring creates an immediate link to an idea
> few other manufacturers have exploited, and none as well as
> Nikon. From the 900 to the 995, two wide-angle lenses, a super
> wide-angle fisheye, and two definitively sharp telephoto lenses
> make the entire 9xx series into "system" cameras. The fact that
> Nikon has been able to maintain this 28mm threaded ring through
> increases in the physical size of the imaging chip (the 990's chip is
> around 10% larger than the 900/950 imager) without having to
> redesign the converter optics is slightly amazing from a technical
> point of view.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp995/
Not a bad 3mp camera, but it sold for $900 in 2001. Adjusted for
inflation that amount should be able to get you very close to a 12mp
D5000 kit (incl. 18-105mm VR), and a very nice macro lens as well.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: transfer picture to phone?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/65d9d2bb5585662d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 7:07 am
From: Audrey
I have a Motorola RAZR 3 and want to transfer a couple of pictures to
it (they were not taken by it, and are on my hard drive). I thought I
did it, at least the transfer worked, but the phone showed a message
saying that the pictures were too big when I tried to open them. They
are saved as JPGs on my hard drive. I tried to save them as GIFs, but
that didn't work either.
I'm kind of inexperienced at this, just know the basics. Can someone
help me? TIA!
Audrey
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 7:23 am
From: Savageduck
On 2009-05-20 07:07:40 -0700, Audrey <dkfhry@yahoo.com> said:
> I have a Motorola RAZR 3 and want to transfer a couple of pictures to
> it (they were not taken by it, and are on my hard drive). I thought I
> did it, at least the transfer worked, but the phone showed a message
> saying that the pictures were too big when I tried to open them. They
> are saved as JPGs on my hard drive. I tried to save them as GIFs, but
> that didn't work either.
>
> I'm kind of inexperienced at this, just know the basics. Can someone
> help me? TIA!
>
> Audrey
First resize a copy (so you retain your original) of the picture file
to a file size and dimension size accepted by your phone.
JPG should be fine.
Once that is done use whatever transfer procedure is oulined in the
phone manual.
or
If you have a memory card in the phone you could mount that to your
computer and load the resized pictures to the card, they would them be
available for the phone.
or
If you have a USB tether cable to connect the phone to your computer,
the phone should appear on the computer desktop as a US drive, and you
can save th picture files to the phone.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
==============================================================================
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