Photoshop How To Use: rec.photo.digital - 26 new messages in 11 topics

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Future of the megapixel race
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/c78a5377356e2e48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 12:16 am
From: nospam

In article <MPG.24b164e929fee1df98c058@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > and there's a luminance change in those examples, so a bayer sensor
> > will resolve it.
>
> Not necessarily, and even if there was it would not help a Bayer sensor
> to accurately reconstruct the image.

actually it would.

> > how does colour change within a pixel???
>
> Scene having more detail than the sensor can capture?

if it's beyond the capabilities of the sensor, then it doesn't matter
if it's full colour or not. it's not going to be resolved.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 2:59 am
From: h.sainct@laposte.net.invalid (Frédérique & Hervé Sainct)

Robert Sneddon <fred@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> One way to do this might be to increase the number of filter channels -- a
> six-channel filter, say instead of the traditional 3-channel RGB filtering
> process.

multipectral photography is my dream...

--
Frédérique & Hervé Sainct, h.sainct@laposte.net [fr,es,en,it]
Frédérique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Frédérique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 2:59 am
From: h.sainct@laposte.net.invalid (Frédérique & Hervé Sainct)

bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

> Can any passing astronomers comment on this - I strongly
> suspect photon calculations are meat and drink in that
> sphere.

they already use multi-minutes pauses, don"t they?

--
Frédérique & Hervé Sainct, h.sainct@laposte.net [fr,es,en,it]
Frédérique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Frédérique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:40 am
From: Bob Larter

nospam wrote:
> In article <4a45cc3f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Bob Larter
> <bobbylarter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> if you pixel peep you can see problems no matter what camera was used.
>>> the fact remains that human vision can't see colour detail anywhere
>>> near as well as luminance detail which is why the bayer chip works a
>>> well as it does. blur just the colour channels in photoshop and you
>>> won't be able to see a difference until you use very high levels of
>>> blur.
>> Indeed. If anyone wants to try it out, you can do it in Photoshop by
>> converting the image to LAB, then blurring the a & b channels.
>
> yep, and you can blur the a and b channels by quite a bit, roughly a
> 5-10 pixel radius, before it's even barely noticeable. meanwhile, blur
> the luminance channel ever so slightly and you'll notice a difference
> immediately.

Exactly.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Shot Seen 'Round the World
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/15107f2ca666bb2e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 12:45 am
From: "PDM"

>> I love to watch American football, but my 12-year-old grandson, who
>> is very athletic, will not play it, preferring basketball and
>> soccer, because (among other things) the high rate of injuries.
>> This decision of his overjoyed me. A think perhaps that he has
>> another reason: American football, as it is usually played,
>> essentially has the purpose to make the other team worse through
>> injuries; basketball and soccer as they are played is more
>> positive--just to be better than the opposition. Allen
>
> "What rubbish".
>
> Injuries in American football are collateral damage in the demonstration
> of superior athleticism and execution of strategy and tactics.
>
> I know this because I played it fifty years ago, and today the resulting
> right collateral damage is showing its effect to the extent I have limited
> time using it without therapy and a rest. Or rest and therapy. Or lots and
> lots of painkillers. Or all three in any order.
>
> On the other hand I never had anyone walk up to me and bonk me in the nose
> with his forehead, which I believe is common practice at the higher levels
> of soccer (World footie).

I've seen bad behaviour by players (and fans) in both sports. It is not a
regular occurrence. In any highly competitive, adrenalin pumping game,
tempers rise and.

PDM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Photomatix & HDR
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/438bde75c5450595?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 12:53 am
From: burt@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson)

wow <wow@noaddress.com> wrote:

> Wow. And to think I was going to tell him "severely over-processed,
> oversaturated, badly composed crap".

Gee, I am just so in awe of being in the presence of such a Grand Old
Jackass.

Oh well, one more for the kill file, since he clearly has little to
offer the discussion here.

--
- Burt Johnson
MindStorm, Inc.
http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:50 am
From: Eric Stevens

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:31:58 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>I have been dabbling with HDR both with CS4 (OK , but not great) &
>Photomatix Pro, which seems to give a fair degree of flexibility and
>reasonable results.
>
>Here is an image I have been working with from a recent Yosemite road
>trip. 3 exposures -1: 0: +1.
>http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Yosemite-19-20-21-HDRtm-Dc1w.jpg
>
>Any suggestions?

The sky looks great.

The mountains look .... yeah?

But there is something wrong with the trees.

Eric Stevens

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 2:13 am
From: "Ken"

"Savageduck" <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
news:2009062720315838165-savageduck@REMOVESPAMmecom...
>I have been dabbling with HDR both with CS4 (OK , but not great) &
>Photomatix Pro, which seems to give a fair degree of flexibility and
>reasonable results.
>
> Here is an image I have been working with from a recent Yosemite road
> trip. 3 exposures -1: 0: +1.
> http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Yosemite-19-20-21-HDRtm-Dc1w.jpg
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Savageduck

Interesting reading through the posts so far!!!

IMO the only thing that counts is if YOU like the end result.

I like it as it is your first dabble as I am looking at HDR as well.

I like HDR shots but I also like 'normal' shots and for me each have their
place.

It took me ages to start learning to use normal software and I have
downloaded a trial for Photomatix but my goodness there are so many options
that I am getting seriously seriously confused.

Good luck to you and keep on experimenting.

Ken

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:14 am
From: Charlie Choc

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:31:58 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
wrote:

>Any suggestions?

The WB looks a little off and it looks a little over saturated as well, not
uncommon with Photomatix if you increase the saturation. One quick fix for that
is to open it in CS4 and use the 'old style' hue/saturation preset and then
adjust the effect with the opacity slider until the colors look more normal.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 6:22 am
From: "DRS"

"Charlie Choc" <charlie.choc@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:9dne45hcsiubn48pn1hud4jeor9klvq67g@4ax.com
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:31:58 -0700, Savageduck
> <savageduck@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> The WB looks a little off and it looks a little over saturated as
> well, not uncommon with Photomatix if you increase the saturation.
> One quick fix for that is to open it in CS4 and use the 'old style'
> hue/saturation preset and then adjust the effect with the opacity
> slider until the colors look more normal.

I was about to say something very similar. Photomatix for some reason lends
itself to over-contrast/saturation, and as a consequence I dislike many HDR
images I've seen produced by it. The trees in the lower left particularly
remind me of old Technicolor movies, before they got colour technology
right. That said, the sky and hill-side look very natural to my eyes. On
balance I think it's a very good first try.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Proud Performer
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f5e7547338ad4134?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:19 am
From: "Dudley Hanks"

"Oh Look! I Found Another MORON" <olifam@ss.com> wrote in message
news:6qrd455n6dmv8114ivjsn1ochm5cpkoju4@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:34:37 -0700 (PDT), PatM
> <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
>
>>
>>I don't know what set you off, dude, but take a pill. A regular
>>poster solicited for a charity in a not-too-obnoxious way. It's
>>okay. If you don't like it, ignore it. But your reaction was a bit
>>overboard.
>
> Do not misconstrue your overreaction in trying to defend some lame-assed
> begging spammer who can't even take a decent photo to save his life vs.
> someone who types 130wpm and was having a good ol' time making the useless
> beggar oh-so obvious to all; as their "being set off", "needing a pill",
> or
> going "overboard". If you have a difficult time understanding words more
> than two syllables long or reading more complex sentence structures of
> length, then don't.
>
> Here, try this:
>
> Jane met Sally. See Spot chase the red ball.
>
> Better for you?
>
> Shove it up your beggar boyfriend's blind talentless ass.
>
>

Writing complex sentences is somewhat easier than taking blind shots, but
both can be done with a bit of class -- by some people. However, not
everybody has the mental processing capacity to pull it off; others can do
it with only a slight drain on the grey cpu between their ears.

It's usually fairly easy to spot who's who, so I won't bother catagorizing
your posts.

Take Care,
Dudley

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:21 am
From: "Dudley Hanks"

About as tasteless as it gets...

"PatM" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:de8c9e8c-477c-4843-92a2-b19cfd113ceb@m19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 27, 12:49 pm, More-Reality <m...@sigh.com> wrote:
> Congratulations! Your post was voted the most likely to use for my own
> entertainment! No other offers nor coupons implied. ...... I'd type up the
> rest of the standard disclaimer but it's about 20 pages long. (honest,
> it's
> long, but fun to read)
>
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:01:26 GMT, "Dudley Hanks" <dha...@spammers.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.spamlink.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=130
>
> >For GDB supporters, the economic downturn has hurt everybody, including
> >charities. Guide Dogs for the Blind needs donations now more than ever.
> >Last year, the school paid out about $1.3 million in vet costs alone --
> >part of that was for Dima.
>
> >http://www.spamlink.com
>
> And here I thought that blind people all want to be treated just like
> everyone else. Live and learn. What's the matter? Aren't they gainfully
> employed? Did people write all that free accessibility software for your
> computers for nothing? Can't they afford to have their own dogs trained?
> Pay for their own vets? I've taken in up to 25 abused, abandoned, or
> otherwise suffering and neglected dogs at one time, nurturing and feeding
> all of them until they all finally died of old-age. Quite a few of them
> died from complications caused by the Lyme-vaccine being pushed at the
> time, testing it in vets offices before they were going to use it on
> humans. But nobody saw me asking for donations. In fact the one vet that I
> finally learned to trust even put together an emergency field-kit that she
> sold to me for her cost. With cauterizing swabs and injectable anesthetics
> so I could stitch up gaping wounds, set bones, and do basic emergency
> tasks
> on my own. Then I wouldn't have to always be bringing in every new dog to
> her. With living so far in the country it was difficult to get them to the
> vet in time, better I should do as much as I can on my own, on-site. The
> "wholesome" christian farmers in this area treat their dogs worse than
> livestock. You know why, christians don't believe that animals have souls,
> they can do anything that they want to them. Things like gashes around
> legs
> down to the bone from being tied to fences with thin bare wire. So many
> kept coming to my door of their own accord when they finally got free. I
> guess they sensed where to go for help.
>
> I think the saddest one of all was Rocket. I woke up one morning before
> sunrise to see this dog I've never seen before push open the dog-door on
> the porch. From her jaws she dropped a newborn pup inside. So thin and
> weak, just rib-bones with sticks for legs -- her, not her pup. She ran
> off,
> came back a half-hour later with another one, pushed it through the
> dog-door and left it inside the porch. Did this 8 more times that long
> morning. How she found my place originally I'll never know, or how she
> even
> knew what that dog-door was for. All of mine were inside still snoring
> when
> this started. She was desperate, not even enough energy to produce milk
> for
> her pups. With care, they all survived and became plump and happy jumpy
> dogs. Come to find out weeks later she came from a devout-christian's farm
> about a mile down the road, they were breeding her to sell expensive
> hunting-dog pups. She came all that way 10 times, 20 miles total, to save
> her pups that morning. She's also the one that had the gaping wound around
> her leg from being tied-up with bare wire. An amazing animal, once owned
> by
> disgusting humans that should rot forever in their hell. But they don't,
> they still think they are the best people on earth! Just ask them! As they
> drive around in their fancy new refrigerated semi's hauling their goods to
> market as all their animals suffer a life worse than death. (Yes, I
> reported them to 3 different agencies. Didn't do much good. I was told to
> only keep the dogs long enough to bring them back to health then return
> them to the christian-fuckhead owners. Rocket would occasionally bring
> some
> of her pups by a few times that summer to let me know they were doing
> okay.
> Or, if abused again, she would stay a few days to a week until the pain
> was
> past and the owners decided to come get her again. 'Til one year that I
> saw
> none of them anymore. I didn't want to know what happened.)
>
> Are you telling me that none of you can even teach your dogs how to stop
> at
> the curb? (Let alone stitch up their wounds if they get them.) How about
> this: You get a bunch of blind people together, with dogs they adopt from
> the Humane Society. All agree to converge in the local park for a few
> hours
> for 5 days a week for a couple of months. Teach your own dogs how to not
> have them run you into trees. Instant feedback, instant lessons for all,
> FOR FREE. I'm starting to suspect that the blind should succumb to
> Darwinism if all they're ever going to do is survive off of donations and
> the learning and skills of others their whole lives. Sell that camera of
> yours that you can't ever and never will be able to focus or compose
> scenes
> in properly, you'll then be able to afford your vet bills if you're not
> willing to do something as simple as giving them their shots on your own.
> [Lightly pinch the skin a few inches in front of their tail, on the top of
> their back. Form a little pocket of skin. Inject there between your
> fingers. Easy-peasy. They don't even notice it and still slobber all over
> your face when done. Go to your local livestock feed-mill for all
> antibiotics and syringes needed. I've even used the powdered forms for
> myself, it's the exact same stuff they put in capsules for humans. 100%
> identical, I've checked. Just relabeled for livestock use but at 1/100th
> to
> 1/1000th the cost. The only thing you have to learn is how to convert
> dosages per lb. of swine or bovine to dog or human weights.]
>
> Is this Guide-Dog program just like those organizations that exploit
> suffering children so they can sit back on the gravy-train raking in all
> that cash while pretending to do something beneficial? You know, those
> christians who would actually do better by handing out condoms and RU-486
> abortion pills so they wouldn't be condemning the next generation to
> starvation, disease, and abject poverty. All the while the Vatican and its
> millions of churches smugly sitting on more gold and land-possessions than
> the wealth in Fort Knox and Wall St. combined, while their fool followers
> still "donate". But oh no, they are wholesome pro-life christians who
> don't
> believe in population control. Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is good!
> The only way they're going to overtake the planet with their fool-beliefs
> is by out-breeding all others. The biggest evil of the last century was
> that Mother-Fuckin' Theresa. Not only did she perpetuate the suffering for
> this generation while her church benefited from it, but she also ensured
> that the suffering of those she "helped" would continue for many more
> generations to come. All on the premise that her church and belief system
> should have a reason to exist, with no other goal nor purpose to her
> efforts.
>
> How "saintly" of her, playing Satan's right-hand gal her whole life. What
> a
> fine and upstanding missionary. Just like all of them that have come
> before
> and after her. Spreading and ensuring the perpetuation of suffering so
> their church may benefit from it and have a reason to exist. That's some
> really piss-poor faith if you have to perpetuate and exploit that much
> suffering so you can maybe one day believe in your chosen god. Dole out
> the
> gold contained in the Vatican to everyone and give them back their lands
> (which the churches originally stole) to grow food on, then there'd be no
> starvation to exploit. Ooops, then the church wouldn't have a reason to
> exist. Catch-22, they have to hoard all that wealth and land to give
> themselves a purpose for being. Got starving children in your area? Tear
> down that stupid soulless and useless church that you wasted all your
> time,
> money and energy in building. Instead use what supplies you can recycle
> from that ghastly spiritual-monstrosity to plant a community-owned field
> of
> food there. Much less effort with vastly greater benefit for many
> generations to come. What's that? You're too busy praying for food and
> asking for hand-outs? Starve sucker. Death by Darwinism is too good for
> you.
>
> But I digress, with a real solution instead of some psychotic
> daddy-in-the-sky nonsense. One of those greedy self-serving and disgusting
> christian "Save the Children" exploitations was on TV and it got me
> distracted. Let's get back to the problem at hand.
>
> Sure, I could donate to the Guide-Dogs program, but then what would that
> teach you? How to leach off of society your whole life? Oh wait, you've
> already learned that, as I see by your next statement.
>
>
>
> >Also, if you would like to support my passion for art, remember you can
> >Paypal donations to: dha...@spamlink.com
>
> >All donations very much appreciated.
>
> I'm sure they would be appreciated very much. I'm going to start up a
> passion for hangnails and get donations started for that too. The unsung
> suffering of society--Hangnails. Do you know how many tasks have been
> prevented by hangnails? How many accidents have been caused by distracting
> and painful hangnails? Donate now! We will find a way to wipe-out this
> scourge of modern society. All donations very much appreciated. Donate
> before you get your next hangnail. Each donor will receive a small packet
> of Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid so that you may soak your cuticles in a
> dilute solution of it. This temporary cure found by "Mother Madge", the
> Hangnail Saint. She didn't just exploit those with hangnails, she stopped
> hangnails in their tracks. We may not be able to prevent all hangnails
> yet,
> that's what your donations are for. But we can damned sure try to ease the
> suffering of those that still get them. DONATE NOW! So I too can live off
> of your donations until I am confronted with pleas of "Hey? What happened
> to my donations?" Then you get the usual reply about advertising costs,
> supplies, assistant's paychecks, overhead, start-up fees, private jets to
> cut down on transportation costs ... you know. Lots of money is ...
>
> read more »

I don't know what set you off, dude, but take a pill. A regular
poster solicited for a charity in a not-too-obnoxious way. It's
okay. If you don't like it, ignore it. But your reaction was a bit
overboard.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:29 am
From: "Dudley Hanks"

"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
news:h25iqe$bft$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Dudley Hanks wrote:
>> http://www.blind-apertures.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=130
>
> No image at that link but if I choose the larger size, that is available.
> Easier to see fit to screen:
> http://www.blind-apertures.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=130&g2_serialNumber=1
> Nice pose and expression but out of focus or motion blur, under-lit
> subject and distracting background. The exposure can be raised quite a bit
> to get the subject properly exposed. I emailed you a photoshopped version.
>
>
>> For GDB supporters, the economic downturn has hurt everybody, including
>> charities. Guide Dogs for the Blind needs donations now more than ever.
>> Last year, the school paid out about $1.3 million in vet costs alone --
>> part of that was for Dima.
>>
>> http://www.guidedogs.com
>>
>> Also, if you would like to support my passion for art, remember you can
>> Paypal donations to: dhanks@blind-apertures.com
>>
>> All donations very much appreciated.
>>
>> Take Care, and Thanks,
>> Dudley
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul Furman
> www.edgehill.net
> www.baynatives.com
>
> all google groups messages filtered due to spam

Thanks, Paul, it was probably the old limited DOF out of focus problem
raising it's ugly head again. I was using my 50mm 1.8 lens (80mm 35 mm
equiv) because I was working with available light and didn't want the flash
to even things out too much.

The hall the performance was in was quite bland, not offering much
atmosphere, so I wanted to let the pose and expression carry the shot. Just
about got it, but not quite.

Thanks for the feedback.

Take Care,
Dudley

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:45 am
From: Robert Coe

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:29:55 -0500, Oh Look! I Found Another MORON
<olifam@ss.com> wrote:
: On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:34:37 -0700 (PDT), PatM
: <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
:
: >
: >I don't know what set you off, dude, but take a pill. A regular
: >poster solicited for a charity in a not-too-obnoxious way. It's
: >okay. If you don't like it, ignore it. But your reaction was a bit
: >overboard.
:
: Do not misconstrue your overreaction in trying to defend some lame-assed
: begging spammer who can't even take a decent photo to save his life vs.
: someone who types 130wpm and was having a good ol' time making the useless
: beggar oh-so obvious to all; as their "being set off", "needing a pill", or
: going "overboard". If you have a difficult time understanding words more
: than two syllables long or reading more complex sentence structures of
: length, then don't.
:
: Here, try this:
:
: Jane met Sally. See Spot chase the red ball.
:
: Better for you?
:
: Shove it up your beggar boyfriend's blind talentless ass.

I know it's un-Christian (and un-Jewish and un-Muslim, etc.) to say this, but
I'm getting dangerously close to hoping you'll wake up in the hospital some
fine day and find yourself burdened with a life-altering disability. Then
after you've had some time to get acclimated to your electric wheelchair, or
your guide dog, or your service monkey, you can write in and tell us what, if
anything, you've learned from the experience. I'll be particularly interested
in seeing whether your flair for colorful terminology remains intact.

Bob

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 6:01 am
From: Bob Larter

More-Reality wrote:
> Congratulations! Your post was voted the most likely to use for my own
> entertainment! No other offers nor coupons implied. ...... I'd type up the
> rest of the standard disclaimer but it's about 20 pages long. (honest, it's
> long, but fun to read)
>
>
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:01:26 GMT, "Dudley Hanks" <dhanks@spammers.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.spamlink.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=130
>>
>>
>> For GDB supporters, the economic downturn has hurt everybody, including
>> charities. Guide Dogs for the Blind needs donations now more than ever.
>> Last year, the school paid out about $1.3 million in vet costs alone --
>> part of that was for Dima.
>>
>> http://www.spamlink.com
>
> And here I thought that blind people all want to be treat[SLAP!]

Man, you're so full off shit.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If Olympus can make a smaller camera than the EP-1...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/091e14715afb12be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 1:44 am
From: RichA

...then why doesn't the EP-1 have some kind of viewfinder? Surely
there was room?

British Journal of Photography:

Title: Olympus: there's more to come
Feature: news
Date: 24 June 2009

Can Olympus make an interchangeable-lens camera that's even smaller
than its new retro-inspired E-P1? 'Yes, we can,' says Akira Watanabe,
who's in charge of SLR planning. Olivier Laurent meets him to discuss
the Micro FourThirds format and plans to introduce a pro version

Olympus says the Pen E-P1, unveiled last week, is just the first of
many cameras it has planned using the Micro FourThirds (MFT) standard,
promising it will develop even smaller models and more digital SLR-
like concepts.

Speaking at last week's launch event in Berlin, Akira Watanabe, who is
in charge of Olympus Imaging's SLR planning department, explained that
while the E-P1 is aimed primarily at amateurs, subsequent models will
target other markets, such as professional or entry-level users.

'We categorise this model (the E-P1) as a consumer camera,' he said.
'There will be a series of further models for other users. We can
think of many shapes of design, even DSLR shapes like Panasonic's G1
(the first camera built to the MFT format).'

'We have the opportunity to develop in both directions,' says Miquel
Angel Garcia, the managing director and chief marketing officer of
Olympus in Europe. 'Panasonic took one direction, we went with another
for this first model.'

Asked whether Olympus was able to develop an even smaller camera than
the E-P1, Watanabe, borrowing US President Barack Obama's campaign
slogan, said simply, 'Yes we can'.

Watanabe says delivery of these subsequent models, plus further
additions to the lens range - currently limited to just two Olympus
branded MTF optics - will depend on demand. 'If customers request a
prime lens the most, then it will be the first one to be made.'
Already, Olympus is planning to release a new wide-angle zoom lens
next spring, he says.

In the meantime, says Watanabe, Olympus photographers can employ an
adapter (available separately) to use its entire range of lenses made
to the larger FourThirds standard, developed over the past six years.
'We'll be introducing further adaptors, and we know that third parties
are developing adapters for Nikon and other lenses,' he said.

Ichiban Pen

Last week's launch was preceded by a campaign of leaks and teases,
most of which were confirmed as true. Marketed as the missing link
between compact cameras and DSLRs, the E-P1 does away with a mirror
box to make the camera smaller in size, but unlike Panasonic's G1/G1H
models using the MFT format, it doesn't have an electronic viewfinder
either.

Instead, certain lenses will come supplied with a clip-on optical
viewfinder, fitted via the hotshoe, or users can use live view to
compose via the camera's rear screen.

The design, as the full name suggests, harks backs to the companies
range of Pen-branded film compacts, first launched in 1959.

Measuring 12.5x7x3.5cm, the E-P1 is smaller than Olympus' most compact
interchangeable lens camera to date, the E-620. It uses a 12.3 million
pixel resolution LiveMOS sensor and a new TruePic V image processor,
which allows for an extended ISO range of up to 6400. The E-P1 also
has an in-camera stabilisation system and can record up to five
minutes of high-resolution 1280x720p videos at 30fps. Movies can be
recorded and played back in AVI format in both standard 4:3 or
widescreen 16:9 aspect ratios.

Users can add effects - series of art filters, such as Pop Art, Pin
Hole, Soft Focus, Pale & Light Colour, Light Tone and Grainy Film - to
both still and video images.

Olympus introduced two MTF lenses to go with the E-P1; the M. Zuiko
Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake and M. Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6.
The E-P1 is also compatible with all MTF lenses designed by Panasonic
and, via an adapter, the full range of existing FourThirds lenses.
Adapters are also available for third-party lenses and those made by
other manufacturers.

The E-P1 will be released next month, and will retail at £700 with the
14-42mm lens, and at £749 with the 17mm pancake lens.

Bigger market

Olympus expects rival makers will develop their own mirror-less
cameras.

'The mirror-less system will expand the market by attracting compact
camera consumers,' says Watanabe. 'We expect to see it happening in
the next five years. As other manufacturers enter this market, this
segment will expand. However, we can make the camera smaller and
lighter than others that use APS-C sensors.'

The MFT format was first designed in 2002, says Watanabe. However, it
was given greater impetus two years ago when the E-420 was developed.

'We knew that 20% of compact camera customers had considered buying a
DSLR but worried that it was too bulky and complicated to handle,' he
says. 'We wanted to invite more people to our market, so that's when
we decided to develop the E-P1.'

'The majority of the E-P1 customers will come from the compact camera
market,' says Garcia. '(These customers) are interested in the DSLR
quality, sharpness, focus and depth-of-field, but they worry about the
size.' Olympus, says Garcia, doesn't know exactly how many people will
buy into the new system, but hinted that the potential is big. 'Twenty
percent of 43 million users is already a big market.'

'Our biggest problem was how to define this camera,' says Garcia.
'Except for the name, quality-wise it's the same as a DSLR. And it's
not a compact camera. But we realised that we had a name in the past
for this type of cameras. The essentials of this camera concept is
behind that name - the Pen.'

Pro shooters

However, Olympus understands that the E-P1 will not replace
professional photographers' usual kit. 'We know it will be a second
camera for DSLR users who require an easier to use and lighter
camera,' says Garcia. 'DSLR users are easier to reach and they are the
best ambassadors for the bigger market. The compact users are the ones
that will need more information about the E-P1.'

Of course, Olympus is looking to attract pro shooters, Garcia says,
and one way to do that is with a viewfinder and integrated flash,
which the E-P1 lacks. 'Our main focus with this first model has been
to make a compact camera to attract the users from the compact
market,' he says. However, professional photographers wishing for a
viewfinder will see their wishes granted, according to Watanabe. 'We
are now preparing for future products to incorporate a electronic
viewfinder,' as well as a flash, he says.

Olympus has also decided to put a brake in the race for the highest
pixel count. 'For most applications, 12 million pixels are enough. It
satisfies many of the customers,' says Watanabe. 'Now, the priority is
on dynamic range and speed.'

As for video, Olympus believes it was instrumental in the development
of the technology. 'Now everyone is adding video to their DSLRs,' says
Watanabe. 'The beginning of this trend was with the E-330, when we
introduced LiveView. 'It's not a big jump from live view to video
technology. In fact, we first tried the movie function with the E-330.
We examined what we could achieve with it. That was three years ago.
However, at the time, we thought it was a big jump and we didn't think
it was necessary then.'

Now, Olympus will be monitoring the response it gets with the E-P1,
says Watanabe. And, already reports of shortages are widespread. In
the UK, stocks will be in very limited supply, according to Olympus
UK.

Try it tomorrow

Jessops is hosting a UK exclusive launch of the E-P1 in London on 25
June.

Olympus UK says the event is the 'first chance for anyone to see and
handle the new camera in the UK will be exclusively at Jessops in New
Oxford Street, London on Thursday 25 June starting around 6pm and
including an appearance by David Bailey'.

'To honour the Pen 50 Year anniversary - the first 50 people to order
a Pen Digital Kit on the day will receive a limited edition £300 Cross
Fountain pen with engraved plaque and be one of the first to receive
their new Pen Camera just a few days after this launch event. The
camera will then be available for demonstration at the New Oxford
street store from the 26 June onwards.'

On Saturday 27 June there will be further previews at Jessops in
Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Glasgow Sauchiehall St, plus London
Camera Exchange in Norwich, Jacobs in Leicester and Wilkinson Cameras
stores across the Northwest.

More locations and details will be released in due course, says
Olympus.

It has also set up a dedicated portal where you can virtually try the
camera, plus there's the chance to get hold of an E-P1 for a week and
write a review.

For further details, visit Olympus-europa.com/pen.

Expert opinion on the E-P1

'It seems to fit in perfectly between a compact and DSLR,' says award-
winning photojournalist, Edmond Terakopian. 'It's a segment of the
market that definitely needs to be expanded upon; apart from the Leica
M8 and M8.2, there's nothing else like this. I love the fact that
there's a prime lens already and hope that Olympus will make a wider
24mm or 28mm, and a 50mm equivalent.' However, the aperture of f/2.8
is a bit of a let down, says Terakopian, 'as f/2 would be much more
welcome. I do wish that it had a built-in, large-sized optical
viewfinder'.

'But if it produces the results and handles like I'd like it too, it's
going to be a very handy tool to have,' says Terakopian. 'Two of these
and three little prime lenses and most features and reportage work
could very easily be dealt with.'

However, another BJP contributor, Jonathan Eastland is not as
enthusiast about the E-P1. 'The originality of creative thought
sometimes gets compromised,' he says. 'You can't really recreate what
came before unless you replicate it exactly. The E-P1 is a new thing
with new technology made to look like something from a past era. I'm
not convinced the technology is really there yet for me at this format
level.'

He continues: 'As much as I liked the Panasonic G1, its versatility
and comfort factor, there were issues with the image quality. I'd like
to know how Olympus has dealt with these, especially the random Moire
problem experienced with the G1. The lack of a built-in, eye-level
viewfinder on the E-P1 is another sticking point. I'm not happy with
the mobile phone view of the world. I see pictures in my head, not at
the end of my arm, so I need the kind of tool that can become the
simplest extension of my mind's eye.'

Source:

© Incisive Media Ltd. 2009
Incisive Media Limited, Haymarket House, 28-29 Haymarket, London SW1Y
4RX, is a company registered in the United Kingdom with company
registration number 04038503

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Kodak kills Kodachrome film after 74 years
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ffab234a019b33ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 3:22 am
From: Kennedy McEwen

In article
<63bfe121-3d7f-4a71-9936-281acc9077e4@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> writes
>On Jun 27, 5:13 pm, Kennedy McEwen <r...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The context added nothing.
>
>Only understanding, for those who comprehend what they read.
>
>> You were wrong. Stop digging and stand up
>> like a man.
>
>Right. Like you've suddenly been crowned Queen of the Net-Nannies

Nothing to do with Net-nannying, but noting and commenting that you
don't possess the maturity to admit your mistake even after it is
spelled out to you, almost in single syllables, by numerous others.
Nobody want's to, or is trying to, stop you demonstrating juvenile
behaviour online, so feel free to carry on.
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Photo of Pyrrhopterus
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8176eb8ffb060d4d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:18 am
From: Robert Coe

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:01:05 -0700, Paul Furman <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote:
: Miguel wrote:
: > "rwalker" <rwalker@despammed.com> escribió en el mensaje
: > news:spdd45husapc9krvqg6r4t331iuuhfmt7k@4ax.com...
: >> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:00:11 -0500, terry andersen
: >> <tandersen@myisp.org> wrote:
: >>
: >>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:34:04 -0500, "Miguel"
: >>> <responderalgrupo@invalid.invalid> wrote:
: >>>
: >>>> Hello:
: >>>>
: >>>> I have just done this photo about this interesting species:
: >>>>
: >>>> http://...
: >>>>
: >>>> Thanks to all for your comments about photography.
: >>> Caged birds and other caged animals are not very interesting, and not
: >>> just because of the ugly cage-bar lines with no chance of any decent
: >>> composition. Some people even find caged-animal photos to be annoying, if
: >>> not disturbing. Try to get out into their native habitat and photograph
: >>> them in their natural environment. You'd be far better off by learning
: >>> photography with common sparrows on a branch or pigeons in the park than
: >>> you'll ever be by photographing caged birds.
: >> Or for that matter, if he's tame enough, let him out of the cage and
: >> try a few shots.
: >
: > Yes, It is a good option, as soon as, thoses parrots will have a special
: > processing, but now I only can take photos "as is".
:
: Then don't take the photos, or do tell the story...
:
: Maybe it's art, calling attention to the cruel caging of animals?
: The bad composition just makes it more painful.
:
: Seriously, do these birds have owners? Much more interesting to shoot
: them interacting with their owner, otherwise I get an image of abandoned
: birds in cages going insane. These are very smart, highly social creatures.

Intelligent animals get bored easily, and almost anything you do with them can
attract their interest. Remember the National Geo cover of a gorilla, Nikon in
hand, taking a picture of herself in a full-length mirror? Maybe Miguel should
show the parrot the pictures he takes of him. ;^)

Bob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any Free HDR software out there
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/493e88d0b6e53bbb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:35 am
From: "Ken"

I am just trying out the trial of Photomatix but wondered if there is any
free stuff out there. Easy to use for a beginner and I don't have PhotoShop
just PSP and Ulead software.

Ken

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:45 am
From: Neil Pugh

In message <4a476379$0$18239$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, Ken
<none@none.co.uk> writes
>Hi
>
>I am just trying out the trial of Photomatix but wondered if there is
>any free stuff out there. Easy to use for a beginner and I don't have
>PhotoShop just PSP and Ulead software.
>
>Ken

http://qtpfsgui.sourceforge.net/index.php

Regards,
--
Neil Pugh

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:59 am
From: Bill

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:35:02 +0100, "Ken" <none@none.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I am just trying out the trial of Photomatix but wondered if there is any
>free stuff out there. Easy to use for a beginner and I don't have PhotoShop
>just PSP and Ulead software.
>
>Ken

Try this:

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23923

or this:

http://www.shuttertalk.com/news.php?article=7093 (links at bottom)

HTH
Bill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Olympus EP-1 focusing may doom it for DSLR users
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/6b39aaf93aed311f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:50 am
From: Bob Larter

Sigh ... More Morons To Educate wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:51:51 -0400, Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <fgfc45hrndge6k7l9edgruervvuq9ei2v5@4ax.com>, Steven Wandy
>> <swandy@si.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure about that. When I was using my last P&S (Canon G7) my major
>>> disappointment was the IQ - especially in low light or at higher ISOs
>>> - and the EP1 will certainly be an improvement there.
>> P&S may be getting better but their shutter lag is still deficient. The
>> main pro of DSLR's over P&S, and also the EP-1 over P&S from the looks
>> of the samples, is the IQ as you say. Point and Shoots can have great
>> results in daylight, often can't see the difference from a DSLR, but in
>> low light conditions Point and Shoots are poor.
>
> Too bad that you missed the moonlight shot and starlight-only shots that
> were posted from a P&S camera about a week ago.

Which shots were those?

W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:53 am
From: Bob Larter

Caught Another DSLR-Troll! Ye-Ha! wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:08:23 -0700 (PDT), Rich <rander3127@gmail.com>
[...]
>> Starlight photos? What does that mean, illumination of a scene only
>> by starlight? If so, you are looking at an exposure of a hour at
>> least.
>
> Thanks for just now proving that you've never used any camera in your
> lifetime.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:56 am
From: Bob Larter

Troll Killer wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:44:16 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Steven Wandy wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure about that. When I was using my last P&S (Canon G7) my major
>>> disappointment was the IQ - especially in low light or at higher ISOs
>>> - and the EP1 will certainly be an improvement there.
>> Yeah, for shots where fast AF doesn't matter, the IQ will likely be better.
>>
>> There's generally three reasons that people get fed up enough with P&S
>> cameras that they'll get a D-SLR. First is poor low light performance on
>> indoor shots, because they were used to much better quality indoors
>> using 400 speed film. Second is the CDAF on the P&S models which results
>> in agonizingly long lag times. Third is the need for more wide angle
>> than the P&S can provide. Anyone's that tried to solve the wide-angle
>> problem with some of those add-on adapters for P&S cameras quickly
>> realizes that they need to get a D-SLR!
>>
>> Perhaps the EP-1 will solve two of these issues, we'll see.
>
>
> Dear Resident Pretend-Photographer DSLR-Troll,
>
> Many (new & improved) points outlined below completely disprove your usual

Gee, I never could've sen this response coming...

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Raios de Sul (ex-16 photographs by al-Farrob)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/a05456d7e80c1468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 6:32 am
From: al-Farrob

On Jun 5, 7:04 pm, al-Farrob <alFar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As always I invite you to visit:
>
> www.al-farrob.com

I just added some photos, and updated the choice of the month.
josé varela
www.al-farrob.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: canon SX10is - max memory card capacity
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/a0bc81c99be36e20?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 28 2009 6:33 am
From: Clair Johnston

yirgster wrote:
> Thanks for your responses, but I'm not sure they addressed what I'm
> concerned about.
>
> That a memory card is available in a certain capacity does not imply,
> by itself, that the camera can support that capacity. I've run into
> this before. E.g., card can be 4GB, but camera only supports a max of
> 2GB.
>
> From your answers I infer that the SX10is will support whatever
> capacity the card has? Is this correct? That is, what is the maximum
> card capacity that the camera will in fact support (and not
> necessarily the maximum capacity of cards of that type).
>
> That's what my question was or should have been, and what I couldn't
> find on the various websites.
>
>
> On Jun 27, 7:04 pm, J rgen Exner <jurge...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> yirgster <yirg.ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Max memory capacity for th Canon SX10is?
>>> I couldn't find it anywhere.
>> According tohttp://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sx10is.aspit
>> supports. SD/SDHC/MMC cards.
>>
>> SD is limited to 2GB, SDHC in the current specification is limited to
>> 32GB.
>>
>> jue
>
My wife is currently using a 4G SDHC card in her SX10IS and it works
fine to full capacity. The camera recognizes and writes to my 8G SDHC
card, but we never tied it to capacity. My view, is that unless you are
recording movies, anything over 4G is overkill. I use 8G cards in my
Nikon D300, but that is because I occasionally record in RAW.

I would expect that the SX10IS will work fine with the 32G SDHC cards
unless there is a problem with the card.

Clair

==============================================================================

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