comp.os.linux.misc
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* D&G shoes Chanel shoes (paypal payment)( www.fjrjtrade.com) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/9503baee71ed2c37?hl=en
* Oracle buys Sun, owner of MySQL - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/66afe465185d3d7c?hl=en
* Temperature problem - 7 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/2440e9ccf59092b4?hl=en
* Mozilla Thunderbird - charset of messages - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/cd551a52a586ecb3?hl=en
* dir permissions in linux: does a "w" without an "x" mean anything useful? -
4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/8ce521fa9a32e492?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: D&G shoes Chanel shoes (paypal payment)( www.fjrjtrade.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/9503baee71ed2c37?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 10:15 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oracle buys Sun, owner of MySQL
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/66afe465185d3d7c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 10:24 am
From: Philip
Tim Smith wrote:
> In article <oumdnbLCc89nlXPUnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> sheldonlg <sheldonlg> wrote:
>> .. and Oracle does not have an auto-increment feature. You have to
>> create a sequence.
>
> In other words, Oracle follows the SQL standard, and MySQL does not.
> None of the major databases actually does a good job of following the
> standard, but MySQL seems to be the most egregious violator, leading to
> a lot of people finding that their database code has ended up being
> MySQL-specific.
Yes, Oracle never goes above and beyond. Migrating an older Informix
application to Oracle was a beast. The other half of the system went to
MySQL. That was a big beast too. Good thing it was reference part and
not the transactional part. You are right, each vendor's SQL is
essentially a lock in.
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 12:00 pm
From: J G Miller
On Wednesday, April 22nd, 2009 at 16:59:00h +0200, Hadron the Quark postulated:
> No real companies or anyone half sane is going to trust their documents
> to Google.
Is that why you use Google mail, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com>, then?
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 12:17 pm
From: Ignoramus1265
On 2009-04-22, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus1265 <ignoramus1265@NOSPAM.1265.invalid> writes:
>
>> I have been using OO for years and I have yet to find something that I
>> need to do and cannot do. I also do not recall it ever crashing on
>> me. I also had it on Windows when I still used Windows at work.
>
> Your needs are not those others.
Sure. All I want is to make documents and spreadsheets with formulas.
>>
>> On windows, I must say, some boneheaded programs required having
>> Excel, which was annoying.
>
> You mean via automation? Like how most businesses work? DCOM
> plugins/interfaces that type of thing? There is a reason OO is not used
> in businesses generally you know - and its not because its free ....
Well, this was one program out of very many, and it was not related to
its central feature. Looked more like something boneheaded on some
people's part.
>> GoogleFinance function that returns current and historical stock
>> prices. So this way I can have a spreadsheet that calculates my exact
>> net worth at any given moment, based on the securities that I own,
>> which is very handy.
>
> You choose a storage plan based on a gimick freebie?
Why, you think that Google will lose my documents one day?
>> This is a big deal to me, as I use a lot of computers and many
>> locations (home, work, and laptop). That extra feature of Google Docs
>> is hard to match in any PC application.
>
> If you're on the net, use ssh to your own server.
ssh and then what? X over ssh?
>> All in all, I find this MS office FUD to be often sincere, but I think
>> that it reality it is off the mark.
>>
>> i
>
> No real companies or anyone half sane is going to trust their documents
> to Google.
Why not? Google does not lose them, after all. Most things are not
that secret, and mind you google does keep them as private as you
would designate.
i
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 3:17 pm
From: William Poaster
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:19:16 -0400, above the shrieking & whining of the
trolls, Chris Ahlstrom was heard to say:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, terryc belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:33:22 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>>> That's a very good point: Open office is in fact for me as a casual
>>>> user, streets ahead of MS office.
>>>
>>> Justify that please. As "free" SW it's OK. As a replacement for MSO
>>> (already entrenched) its simply not up to the mark. It's slow, buggy and
>>> often ugly. Just how it is better than MSO?
>>
>> True WordPerfect Office is far better than either for real work {:-).
>> Open Office suffices for the casual user without the bloat and cost of MS
>> Office.
>
> More than just casual. I use it at work all the time to generate Word,
> Excel, and Powerpoint documents, and to view extremely complex MS Office
> documents. It even handles the newest treadmill-upgrade MS formats
> tolerably well.
>
> Hadron is wrong, too. OpenOffice not slow, buggy, or ugly. It does have
> as many user-interface issues as the Microsoft Office products, though --
> just different ones.
Well we already know that Hadron Quack is a M$ fanboi, & promotes M$
products at every opportunity.
> Microsoft apparently /still/ has not figured out what kind of user interface
> they want in Office, by the way.
--
Conficker, coming to a M$ windows
machine near you!
2 million infected, & counting:
http://securitylabs.websense.com/content/Alerts/3329.aspx
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 3:29 pm
From: "Greg Russell"
"William Poaster" <wp@ubuntu-hardy64.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.04.22.22.17.07.345909@ubuntu-hardy64.org...
> Conficker, coming to a M$ windows machine near you!
> 2 million infected, & counting:
> http://securitylabs.websense.com/content/Alerts/3329.aspx
Yes, an M$-IIS web server "updated" 03.30.2009 -- thanks for the laugh.
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 5:00 pm
From: terryc
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:53:49 +0200, Aleks A.-Lessmann wrote:
> On 21 Apr 2009 01:46:10 GMT, terryc wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:53:30 -0500, Ignoramus32638 wrote:
>>> Is it in Oracle's interests to continue developing MySQL as a free,
>>> viable and powerful database system?
>>AFAIK, MySql isn't that powerful, so unless Oracle release a free
>
> Are you talking from experience? Because my experience here is that it
> can handle high traffic with no problems,
Define high traffic?
What applications?
> My experience wand it's only in very precise configurations that it
runs into problems. I would definitely see it on
> par with Oracle in many typical DB use scenarios.
That is the point, what "typical" means in each case. I don't think I'd
look at Oracle for distributed data (two way flow) with automated
updating, centralised data dictionary. OTOH, as a centralised server, why
not.
> I have deployed MySQL
> or seen it running in conditions where Oracle would have been my choice
> until I saw MySQL could handle the situation.
Really a business question. if MySQL works, why not.
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 5:02 pm
From: terryc
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:13:33 -0500, Ignoramus1265 wrote:
> My son can run OpenOffice on his 9 year laptop with 256 MB of RAM. It is
> slow on it, but it works.
256Mb or RAM <drool>.
>
> Google Docs also lets me share documents with other people, such as my
> coworkers or my spouse, friends etc (depending on the document,
> obviously).
"sound business practise."
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Temperature problem
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/2440e9ccf59092b4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 10:29 am
From: Dan C
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:01:39 +0000, Luca wrote:
> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:56:11 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:38:45 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>
>>> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:37 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:15:02 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual core
>>>>> CPU. I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>>>>>
>>>>> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I
>>>>> haven't so high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy
>>>>> "performance" o "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
>>>>>
>>>>> Somebody know something about this problem?
>>>>
>>>> It's likely related to ACPI and fans not being controlled properly.
>>>
>>> mmm, I supposed the problem is acpi, how can I resolve or where can i
>>> find some information?
>>
>> Here: http://www.google.com
>>
>> Duh.
>
> Oh yeah! I don't know google I'm just arrived from Mars!
>
> I tried to search using google, but I didn't find anything
Well, I guess you're suckin' then.
Is stupidity painful?
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Need help?: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/ubuntu.jpg
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 10:54 am
From: Luca
Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:29:40 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:01:39 +0000, Luca wrote:
>
>> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:56:11 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>>
>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:38:45 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>>
>>>> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:37 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:15:02 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual
>>>>>> core CPU. I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I
>>>>>> haven't so high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy
>>>>>> "performance" o "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somebody know something about this problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's likely related to ACPI and fans not being controlled properly.
>>>>
>>>> mmm, I supposed the problem is acpi, how can I resolve or where can i
>>>> find some information?
>>>
>>> Here: http://www.google.com
>>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>> Oh yeah! I don't know google I'm just arrived from Mars!
>>
>> I tried to search using google, but I didn't find anything
>
> Well, I guess you're suckin' then.
>
> Is stupidity painful?
Who do you think you are?
If you want to answear to use google, without suggent what to ask to
google, please don't answear...you're useless.
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 10:44 am
From: Bill Marcum
On 2009-04-22, Luca <lucaver@inwind.it> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual core CPU.
> I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>
> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I haven't so
> high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy "performance" o
> "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
>
> Somebody know something about this problem?
>
> Thank you
> Luca
Have you tried using "top" to see what process is using the cpu?
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 12:02 pm
From: Nathan Keel
Dan C wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:01:39 +0000, Luca wrote:
>
>> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:56:11 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>>
>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:38:45 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>>
>>>> Il Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:37 +0000, Dan C ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:15:02 +0000, Luca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual
>>>>>> core CPU. I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I
>>>>>> haven't so high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy
>>>>>> "performance" o "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somebody know something about this problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's likely related to ACPI and fans not being controlled
>>>>> properly.
>>>>
>>>> mmm, I supposed the problem is acpi, how can I resolve or where can
>>>> i find some information?
>>>
>>> Here: http://www.google.com
>>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>> Oh yeah! I don't know google I'm just arrived from Mars!
>>
>> I tried to search using google, but I didn't find anything
>
> Well, I guess you're suckin' then.
>
> Is stupidity painful?
>
>
Why read a post asking for help if you're just going to berate the guy
asking? Maybe consider laying off the guy. If you aren't able or
willing to help him, don't reply.
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 12:03 pm
From: Nathan Keel
Luca wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual core
> CPU. I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>
> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I haven't
> so high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy "performance" o
> "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
>
> Somebody know something about this problem?
>
> Thank you
> Luca
Are you running anything specific when you see this difference? Have
you considered that one platform may not be reading the temp properly,
rather than the use actually being too different? Is the usage heavier
or lighter on one OS or the other? Did you run any tests to get the
usage high and see what temp it reports for both OSes?
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 2:59 pm
From: "s. keeling"
Nathan Keel <nat.k@gm.ml>:
> Dan C wrote:
>
> [nothing much].
>
> Why read a post asking for help if you're just going to berate the guy
Dan appears to have an extreme case of Doesn't Suffer Fools Lightly,
and is quick to label people Fools.
--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 3:07 pm
From: "s. keeling"
Luca <lucaver@inwind.it>:
>
> I have a compaq notebook with an nvidia card and a pentium dual core CPU.
> I have windows vista and kubuntu.
>
> The pc had a high temperature from 2 week. If I use windows I haven't so
> high temperature, I have use Linux with cpu policy "performance" o
> "dynamic" the temperature raise 90°.
Hopefully, you've solved this by now. If not, look into
cpufrequtils. It allows the kernel to do frequency scaling.
"ondemand" took mine from 70 C to 55 C. When cpu load goes up, cpu
scales up in MHz.
--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mozilla Thunderbird - charset of messages
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/cd551a52a586ecb3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 11:35 am
From: A Watcher
When I post a repley to usenet with Thunderbird my messages appear with
the charset of the original message. Is there a way to force it to be
ISO-8859-1 instead. That UTF charset doesn't display well in many browsers.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 1:23 pm
From: wisdomkiller & pain
A Watcher wrote:
> When I post a repley to usenet with Thunderbird my messages appear with
> the charset of the original message. Is there a way to force it to be
> ISO-8859-1 instead. That UTF charset doesn't display well in many
> browsers.
From your headers:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
Looks like you did it already?
However, a "browser" is not the best means to read usenet news, so don't be
worried too much about the googlegroopers lurking on IE, firefox or others.
Most *real* newsreaders are able to check for 8-bit characters and only
announce 8-bit or utf-8 when they appear in your message.
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 2:41 pm
From: A Watcher
wisdomkiller & pain wrote:
> A Watcher wrote:
>
>> When I post a repley to usenet with Thunderbird my messages appear with
>> the charset of the original message. Is there a way to force it to be
>> ISO-8859-1 instead. That UTF charset doesn't display well in many
>> browsers.
>
> From your headers:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
>
> Looks like you did it already?
> However, a "browser" is not the best means to read usenet news, so don't be
> worried too much about the googlegroopers lurking on IE, firefox or others.
> Most *real* newsreaders are able to check for 8-bit characters and only
> announce 8-bit or utf-8 when they appear in your message.
I typed browser out of habit, I meant newsreader. Yes when I originate
a message it gets the right charset, but when I reply I seem to get the
charset of the originator.
The Pan newsreader seems to default to the UTF charset and that looks
faint on my PC. I have found how to set the charset in Pan, but I
normally use Thunderbird.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 1:45 pm
From: Jakub Fišer
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:35:27 -0700, A Watcher <stocksami@earthlink.net> wrote:
> When I post a repley to usenet with Thunderbird my messages appear with the
> charset of the original message. Is there a way to force it to be ISO-8859-1
> instead. That UTF charset doesn't display well in many browsers.
From where did you get this information exactly?
We're in 21st century - any browser can handle UTF if the page has proper
headers. If something goes wrong then it's usually not a browser problem...
-miky
--
Jakub Fišer AKA mr@MikyMaus.org
ICQ: I don't see kyou - http://icq.xmpp.cz/
JID: mr.MikyMaus@jabber.cz
Vyhýbejte se, prosím, přílohám typu Word nebo PowerPoint:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.cs.html
Please avoid sending me Word, PowerPoint, etc. attachments:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 2:28 pm
From: marrgol
On 2009-04-22 20:35, A Watcher wrote:
> When I post a repley to usenet with Thunderbird my messages appear with
> the charset of the original message. Is there a way to force it to be
> ISO-8859-1 instead. That UTF charset doesn't display well in many
> browsers.
Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> General -> Config Editor
intl.charset.default = ISO-8859-1
mailnews.reply_in_default_charset = true
--
mrg
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 2:26 pm
From: wisdomkiller & pain
A Watcher wrote:
....
> I typed browser out of habit, I meant newsreader. Yes when I originate
> a message it gets the right charset, but when I reply I seem to get the
> charset of the originator.
>
Your reply this time got 8859-1 as well, with my post ascii (headers, look).
> The Pan newsreader seems to default to the UTF charset and that looks
> faint on my PC. I have found how to set the charset in Pan, but I
> normally use Thunderbird.
There is a default charset setting in thunderbird per server as well, and
don't forget the about:config (advanced) and all the possible charset
settings there.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: dir permissions in linux: does a "w" without an "x" mean anything
useful?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/t/8ce521fa9a32e492?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 11:02 am
From: Robert Heller
At Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:16:12 +0000 (UTC) Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> Questions about permissions on Linux:
>
> (1) Is there any situation where one might want to give a write permision
> but deny a read permission (file or dir)? Or is this combination always
> meaningless (as it naiively seems to me)
w without r simply allows writing, but not reading. From the specific
user's POV, it is like a black hole: files can be writen to, but not read.
>
> (2)For directories specificlly:
>
> I tried giving my group w permissions on a dir. What exactly does the w
> allow them to do? I thought it was supposed to allow them to delete files
> in that dir but it does not (unless combined with an x).
>
> drwxrw---- dir
> -rw-r----- dir/file
>
> Neither can they delete that dir itself.
>
> In fact although there's read permissions on both dir and dir/file they
> cannot read that file either. I thought even without the x permission on a
> dir a user was supposed to be able to read a file if he knew the exact
> name.
Yes. He does need read access through all directories in the path.
>
> To rephrase: "What previlage does a "w" on a dir yield by itself? Or does
> it always have to be combined with an "x"?"
"w" on a dir yields file delete and create access (eg the ablity to
change the directory file itself, by adding and deleting entries).
>
> I've always used chmod g+rx on dirs but just got me thinking today.
'x' on a directory allows for a directory listing (or anything similar,
like wildcard (or shell) expansion). Without the 'x', the given user
cannot see what else is in the directory. A 'w' (and/or 'r') on a
directory *without* a 'x' restricts the class of users (group or other)
to only delete (and/or read) files, so long as the full pathname is
(blindly) known to that class of users.
>
--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows
heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 11:17 am
From: wisdomkiller & pain
Rahul wrote:
> Questions about permissions on Linux:
>
....
Best you can do is to try it out with a testdir and a (set of) testfile(s).
You should notice, "execute" on a directory means "traverse permission".
Ownership or group r/w permissions for a directory include files therein.
There are sgid and sticky bits as well, for fine-tuning.
Just a little googling will lead you to sites like
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~rc/help/faq/permissions.html
and many others.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 12:06 pm
From: Nathan Keel
Rahul wrote:
> Questions about permissions on Linux:
>
> (1) Is there any situation where one might want to give a write
> permision but deny a read permission (file or dir)? Or is this
> combination always meaningless (as it naiively seems to me)
>
> (2)For directories specificlly:
>
> I tried giving my group w permissions on a dir. What exactly does the
> w allow them to do? I thought it was supposed to allow them to delete
> files in that dir but it does not (unless combined with an x).
>
> drwxrw---- dir
> -rw-r----- dir/file
>
> Neither can they delete that dir itself.
>
> In fact although there's read permissions on both dir and dir/file
> they cannot read that file either. I thought even without the x
> permission on a dir a user was supposed to be able to read a file if
> he knew the exact name.
>
> To rephrase: "What previlage does a "w" on a dir yield by itself? Or
> does it always have to be combined with an "x"?"
>
> I've always used chmod g+rx on dirs but just got me thinking today.
>
The x is executable. The w is write. The r is read. d is directory -
for file. For no file listings in a directory for another user, set
the directory to 0711 (or 0701) instead of 0760 (which you have now).
Otherwise only the user that owns the directory can view/access or run
the file.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 22 2009 2:12 pm
From: Jakub Fišer
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:02:16 -0500, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> At Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:16:12 +0000 (UTC) Rahul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> > Questions about permissions on Linux:
> >
> > (1) Is there any situation where one might want to give a write permision
> > but deny a read permission (file or dir)? Or is this combination always
> > meaningless (as it naiively seems to me)
>
> w without r simply allows writing, but not reading. From the specific
> user's POV, it is like a black hole: files can be writen to, but not read.
WOM (Write-only media - that includes files, that cannot be read from) can be
used for example for storing private keys - noone really need to know the key,
just a secure mechanism to use the key - like smardcards or tokens. Same can be
done for a file if you want to (i.e. readable only by encryption software, but
writable with key generator)... Just a wild idea :)
>
> >
> > (2)For directories specificlly:
> >
> > I tried giving my group w permissions on a dir. What exactly does the w
> > allow them to do? I thought it was supposed to allow them to delete files
> > in that dir but it does not (unless combined with an x).
> >
> > drwxrw---- dir
> > -rw-r----- dir/file
> >
> > Neither can they delete that dir itself.
> >
> > In fact although there's read permissions on both dir and dir/file they
> > cannot read that file either. I thought even without the x permission on a
> > dir a user was supposed to be able to read a file if he knew the exact
> > name.
>
> Yes. He does need read access through all directories in the path.
Nope, read permission on a directory is not needed when accessing its
files, "execute" permission is. see down:
>
> >
> > To rephrase: "What previlage does a "w" on a dir yield by itself? Or does
> > it always have to be combined with an "x"?"
>
> "w" on a dir yields file delete and create access (eg the ablity to
> change the directory file itself, by adding and deleting entries).
this part is true - an entry can be whatever can reside in filesystem (file,
directory, symlink, socket, pipe...) - BUT:
> >
> > I've always used chmod g+rx on dirs but just got me thinking today.
>
> 'x' on a directory allows for a directory listing (or anything similar,
> like wildcard (or shell) expansion). Without the 'x', the given user
> cannot see what else is in the directory. A 'w' (and/or 'r') on a
> directory *without* a 'x' restricts the class of users (group or other)
> to only delete (and/or read) files, so long as the full pathname is
> (blindly) known to that class of users.
this paragraph is a mixup. the -x- permission allows one to ACCESS the
directory (i.e. "chdir to it" and interact with its entries) while the -r-
allows one to see its content (i.e. "ls it"). The -w- lets user modify the
directory content (i.e. adding and removing entries). Now it gets interesting:)
The -w- lets you change the content BUT the content is in fact a bunch of
entries which cannot be interacted without -x- permission. Hence an -w- without
-x- doesn't make much sense* while an -x- without -w- or -r- makes perfect
sense.
(*) while you cannot interact with entries in the directory, you can still
interact with the directory itself - like changing its modification time or
group - for that you don't need the -x- permission.
If you want to acces a file in the filesystem, all directories in path must
have at least -x- permission for you.
There is however one problem with -w-: anyone who has the -w- permission can
delete any file in the directory even if the file is inaccesible to him in
any way, since he is not interacting with the file itself but just with an
entry in a directory.
To prevent this we have yet another "permission" - sticky. On files it has no
effect (it has something to do with keeping binaries in memory but now its
ignored).On DIRECTORIES however it makes you unable to delete entries that you
do not own.
hope it makes better sense to you now :)
cheers,
-miky
--
Jakub Fišer AKA mr@MikyMaus.org
ICQ: I don't see kyou - http://icq.xmpp.cz/
JID: mr.MikyMaus@jabber.cz
Vyhýbejte se, prosím, přílohám typu Word nebo PowerPoint:
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Please avoid sending me Word, PowerPoint, etc. attachments:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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