Photoshop How To Use: rec.photo.digital - 26 new messages in 11 topics

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TOPIC: Neutral density filters
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/e0bafecf31ba5f03?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 12:10 am
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)

ronviers <ronviers@gmail.com> wrote:
>It just says, "they do not reduce the intensity of all wavelengths
>equally".
>
>In what way? What casts can be expected?

It depends upon the particular filture and the manufacturer. Try to
use some common sense.

> When Photoshop emulates a nd
>filter, what is being changed?

Photoshop reduces the intensity. It is not a filter.

>How are they not perfect?

"they do not reduce the intensity of all wavelengths equally"

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 12:43 am
From: Troy Piggins

* ronviers wrote :
> It just says, "they do not reduce the intensity of all
> wavelengths equally".
>
> In what way? What casts can be expected?

I've read that some cheaper ND filters give a purple/magenta
cast. This can be corrected with typical white balance post
processing.

> When Photoshop emulates a nd filter, what is being changed?
> How are they not perfect?

I don't use PS, but assume that "emulating" is just dropping the
exposure? ie darkening the image?

PS can't always emulate a ND filter. ND filters increase the
exposure time for the same aperture and ISO. This can be used
for effect for things like running water or clouds that move -
gives that milky/streaky sort of effect such as this:
http://marcopolo17.deviantart.com/art/Cold-wind-81015165
http://marcopolo17.deviantart.com/art/The-race-86041823

You can't emulate that in PS.

--
Troy Piggins

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 12:44 am
From: ronviers

>"It depends upon the particular filture and the manufacturer. Try to
>use some common sense."

In other words, you do not know.

>"Photoshop reduces the intensity. It is not a filter."

Using the Photoshop adjustment layer 'Black and White' there is a
*filter* option 'Neutral Density'. It does not affect the colors
evenly. Does the uneven distribution correspond to predictable
imperfections from nd filters?

>"they do not reduce the intensity of all wavelengths equally"

In what way? What casts can be expected?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 3:26 am
From: Neil Ellwood

On Wed, 27 May 2009 00:44:57 -0700, ronviers wrote:

>>"It depends upon the particular filture and the manufacturer. Try to
>>use some common sense."
>
> In other words, you do not know.
He does know, he wants YOU to think for yourself.
>
>>"Photoshop reduces the intensity. It is not a filter."
>
> Using the Photoshop adjustment layer 'Black and White' there is a
> *filter* option 'Neutral Density'. It does not affect the colors evenly.
> Does the uneven distribution correspond to predictable imperfections
> from nd filters?
Try it and find out.
>
>>"they do not reduce the intensity of all wavelengths equally"
>
> In what way? What casts can be expected?
Think - filters are made by differing manufacturers and have varying
characteristics.

Neil
reverse ra and delete l
Linux user 335851

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 3:37 am
From: bugbear

Ray Fischer wrote:
> ronviers@gmail.com <ronviers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was reading on wiki:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter
>> that neutral density filters are not perfect.
>>
>> Can someone give me a simple explanation for why and how they are not
>> perfect, and a brief description of how they are made?
>
> The article explained how they are not perfect. If you cited the
> article then you should have read it.
>

Interestingly, one could (in theory) make a close-to-perfect
ND filter FOR A PARTICULAR camera by using equal densities
of the filter materials used in the bayer matrix of the camera.

It would not affect *all* wavelengths equally, but (of course)
in a three colour camera, only three wavelength (groups)
matter.

BugBear

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 6:52 am
From: Don Stauffer

ronviers@gmail.com wrote:
> I was reading on wiki:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter
> that neutral density filters are not perfect.
>
> Can someone give me a simple explanation for why and how they are not
> perfect, and a brief description of how they are made?

Some may not be perfectly "neutral". They may have some "color" to
them. Also, there might be a slight transmittance variance across them.

However, these effects are very minor. Any reputable brand of ND filter
will give you no substantial problems. Go ahead and buy a set.

There are two kinds. In one an absorbing substance is dissolved in the
glass. In the other kind, generally used for VERY high attenuation, a
thin metallic film is deposited on the surface of a clear glass.

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nikon- CL-L2 Ballistic Nylon Lens Case Service Advisory
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/0dbd4b5f208f274d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 1:58 am
From: Chris Malcolm

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Viperdoc <jnino@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a 600 F4 AIS lens, with hood, tc14, and suitcase. It is a great lens,
> very sharp, but very heavy. You will need a big tripod to use the lens, and
> even then the slightest motion is magnified tremendously. It would be
> ponderous and slow to use in the field.

> As a result, I use it very rarely, and have never taken it on a trip
> anywhere. Most of the time it sits on the floor.

Nikon have (or used to have) a 500mm f8 catadioptric reflex lens,
which gets you the same kind of length at very much lighter weight and
lower price, if you can live with the f8 restriction and the doughnut
bokeh.

--
Chris Malcolm

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 4:54 am
From: Chris H

In message <iqydnbmH9pgGFoHXnZ2dnUVZ_rxi4p2d@giganews.com>, Rich
<none@nowhere.com> writes
>Chinese making the cheap plastic in backyard furnaces?

As opposed to what?

The Chinese make some very good quality stuff as do the Taiwanese and
the Japanese...

BTW what American cameras are there? (That is US designed AND
manufactured)?

For real crap we could look at cars like GM and Chrysler used to
make...
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 6:17 am
From: "David J. Littleboy"

"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>
> BTW what American cameras are there? (That is US designed AND
> manufactured)?

The U2 cameras were US made and frigging amazing. I saw contact prints from
some test shots once, and was able to see instantly why the Russians were so
irritated.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 8:13 am
From: Chris H

In message <EZidnTkEF8DjoIDXnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com>, David J.
Littleboy <davidjl@gol.com> writes
>
>"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>
>> BTW what American cameras are there? (That is US designed AND
>> manufactured)?
>
>The U2 cameras were US made and frigging amazing. I saw contact prints from
>some test shots once, and was able to see instantly why the Russians were so
>irritated.
:-)

I was thinking more of commercially available cameras.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 8:57 am
From: me@mine.net

On Wed, 27 May 2009 22:17:45 +0900, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl@gol.com> wrote:

>
>"Chris H" <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>
>> BTW what American cameras are there? (That is US designed AND
>> manufactured)?
>
>The U2 cameras were US made and frigging amazing. I saw contact prints from
>some test shots once, and was able to see instantly why the Russians were so
>irritated.

Something similar in the news this week:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1380/1

which contains the following link:

http://history.nasa.gov/afj/simbaycam/itek-pan-camera.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the fuss over 3:2 aspect ratio?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/ecd50976e6eb9d55?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 3:38 am
From: Alfred Molon

In article <gvio5n$9lm$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Matt Ion says...

> NO rectangular sensor is the perfect shape - the optimum sensor shape is
> circular, to match the actual light pattern projected by the lens.
> Anything else is a waste of optics.

Exactly - and 4:3 is closer to circular than 3:2.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 3:49 am
From: "jaf"

Moe rons.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 5:17 am
From: snapper@mailinator.com

On Tue, 26 May 2009 22:05:13 -0700 (PDT), eNo <grandepatzer@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't know about the earlier thread, but 3:2 corresponds to the most
> popular 4x6 print size (4:6 = 2:3 = 3:2).

No it doesn't.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 5:21 am
From: Peter Irwin

eNo <grandepatzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't know about the earlier thread, but 3:2 corresponds to the most
> popular 4x6 print size (4:6 = 2:3 = 3:2).

That's just a by-product of the popularity of 35mm film cameras.
When 126 instamatics were popular (and before that 12 on 120, 620 or
127) there were a lot of square prints. I think square format was
actually a rather good choice for snapshots.

The popularity of 24x36mm on 35mm film had very little to do with
any popular preference for a 3:2 aspect ratio.

Peter.
--
pirwin@ktb.net

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 6:21 am
From: Matt Ion

Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <gvio5n$9lm$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Matt Ion says...
>
>> NO rectangular sensor is the perfect shape - the optimum sensor shape is
>> circular, to match the actual light pattern projected by the lens.
>> Anything else is a waste of optics.
>
> Exactly - and 4:3 is closer to circular than 3:2.

1:1 is closer still, so why not just go all the way?

Like I said, the whole argument is ridiculous.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 7:33 am
From: sligoNoSPAMjoe@hotmail.com

On Wed, 27 May 2009 12:38:18 +0200, Alfred Molon
<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <gvio5n$9lm$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Matt Ion says...
>
>> NO rectangular sensor is the perfect shape - the optimum sensor shape is
>> circular, to match the actual light pattern projected by the lens.
>> Anything else is a waste of optics.
>
>Exactly - and 4:3 is closer to circular than 3:2.

Not really. Few people would choose a circle or a square
image to a rectangle. That is evidenced from your comments.

Over history the golden rectangle (1.6180339887 ratio) has
generally been chosen as the most esthetically pleasing.

From a practical view, we use rectangles of an image not a
circle. We rotate the camera to obtain a vertical subject so while we
are using a rectangular image out of a circle, it is not the circle
that is important.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 8:41 am
From: Wally

On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:33:19 -0400, sligoNoSPAMjoe@hotmail.com wrote:

> Over history the golden rectangle (1.6180339887 ratio) has
>generally been chosen as the most esthetically pleasing.

Number worship.

Just like the rule of thirds.

Wally

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Printing Photos
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/8ef806fa565f0da1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 3:38 am
From: Dave W

On 12 May, 12:29, "boothmar...@hotmail.com" <boothmar...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi
>
> Can anyone help....when printing photos on plain paper they come out
> fine. But when printing on glossy photo paper 200 299 gms the pics
> come out too green, ie brown turns to green etc.
>
> I have tried all sorts of printer settings & colour profiles in
> photoshop cs2 but to no avail.
>
> Basically the printer is not printing exactly whats on the monitor. I
> have asked the printer not to make adjustments, but this still does
> not make any difference.
>
> I am using Photoshop cs2, Epson Stylus photo R200 printer, Windows
> Vista sp1, Acer X223w LCD 22inch monitor, & Nvida geeforce 8300gs
> graphics card.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Marcus

I have an old HP840c printer, so no possibility of getting a profile
for it. Also, depending on the cartridge, and whether I've topped it
up with cheap ink, the result of printing grey is very variable,
usually greenish like yours. What I did recently when I wanted to
print from black & white pictures, was to create a test graphic.

The graphic started as neutral grey squares in a square 8x8 array. I
graduated the colour of the columns reducing the blue content in 1%
steps, and the colour of the rows reducing green content in 1% steps.
Now the corner square is grey, and the other squares vary in tint on
the screen.

I then print this, and decide which square looks most neutral, or
matches an original print, when viewed in daylight. I then temporarily
apply the same blue/green correction to the image I want to print.

The darkest areas of the print are produced by the most ink and are
therefore the most tinted, so the corrections you make to the file
have to involve changing the low end of RGB colours, maybe by using
the 'curves' facility.

Dave W

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Phase One, bunch of damn fools?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/f159cc458bc32c1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 5:16 am
From: Wolfgang Weisselberg

DMac <d-mac@d-mac.info.delete> wrote:

[stolen laptop]
> I too need to contact phase one but my record of user names and
> passwords was on the laptop.
[...]
> The situation of downloading expensive software and being left to your
> own resources is only going to get worse.

Lessons (hopefully) learned:
1. Encrypt your laptop
2. have up-to-date backups, including from your laptop

-Wolfgang

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Scenic areas in England
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/1076be556766c491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 9:05 am
From: "whisky-dave"

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:dpKdnQ726P-dJ4vXnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@giganews.com...
> whisky-dave wrote:

>> It also seems strange that more police get shot in the USA than the UK,
>> thankfully it's quite rare in the UK.
>>
>>
> That might be due to the fact that the US has about 6 times the population
> of the UK. Don't you think.

Possibley, but in the UK 'only' 1 or 2 a year are killed if that, it's
quite rare.
I'd 'expect' 6 times more to be killed in the USA, but is that the case ?

>Given that so many of the criminals in the US are armed,
Seems they find these self defense weapons easy to get and use for other
purposes.
So why doesn't American ban these guns ?
Why is it so many criminals in the US have guns, are they legal guns .

> it is rather amazing that more aren't killed.

Are you suggesting that overall there's some link between the number of guns
in a society
and the number of people killed by guns ???????

>It is still true that most police officers will never fire
> their gun except at the pistol range during a normal career.

Seems a waste of time having them then doesn't it.
Why not carry a knife.

>Don't believe all those cop shows. They don't represent reality very well.
well I realise that, hope you think the same about UK TV.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's just wrong
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/t/06e32c9cd78fc6f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 9:06 am
From: "whisky-dave"

"clifford" <contact@address.net> wrote in message
news:aldh1591t07kgnuu8uiiffv48t4ugue5c8@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 May 2009 12:39:45 -0400, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote:

> Put it behind us? Not likely. You're analyzing the statue from a white
> POV,
> hoping that it might depict some altruistic effort, when it is anything
> but.

Nah, it's obviously two underage lesbians of different colours playing
water sports. :)

==============================================================================

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009

rec.photo.digital - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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